Popping Jigging outfit.

[rando]

I have just bought a 15-24kg Tcurve spin rod for big poppers & jigging,
I was thinking to mount a Daiwa Emblem 5500 on it ( cant afford to go Saltiga and the like), can anyone offer a critique of this reel ,or, suggest an alternative .$275-$300 the budget.

[fish_on]

ive had a daiwa emblem for about 5 years now and it has not missed a beat. great real for spinning with a massive retrieve cant go wrong. the new ones now have the spare spool which would come in handy one spin one jig. good gears and drag. the only thing is ive never used it for heavy spinning or jigging. ive only put 20lb on it for tuna and mackeral work. only other reel i can think of is the shimano spheros great heavy duty jigging reel but with only 4.5 ratio or something like that bit slow for high speed work. good luck mate

[PlasticFantastic]

Go for the Spheros 14000 with an upgraded Carbontex drag, that should set you back about $250. Also at a later date you can put the Stella handle on it if you want. As for retrieve ratio you'll just have to wind faster.

PlasticFantastic

[rando]

Plastic fantastic
What retrieve rate on the spheros? how much drag can it generate?
Im told the Emblem will pull 10kg, but that big long shaft and massive spool looks like it might suffer a lot of flex under load
I have a tough reel (Thunnus) but its 4.1:1and the drag would max out at 8kg if you pinched it up with pliers.
Would The Emblem or the Sheros handle 50 lb line, braid on the jigging spool, mono for poppers
Thanks for the advise
rando

[countbaysea]

upgraded spheros or daiwa entoh (little over budget)

[PlasticFantastic]

A Mate has the Spheros with the upgraded drag and it will hold about 10 kg of drag but it's silky smooth all the way up to that. It's load up with 90lb Saltiga braid and I recently saw the reel being used on a couple of AJ the biggest was about 12kg and the reel has no flex or anything like that. I don't know which Thunnus you have but if it's the 16000 size you could put better drag washers in it and jig with it as it's a full metal reel and the interals should hold up for a while. As for ratios I jig with a Saltiga 6500 Exp which is a slow reel but have no worries catching fish on it only thing is poppering might require the higher speed it just depends on the fish on the day.

PlasticFantastic

[banshee]

'A mate has the Spheros with the upgraded drag and it will hold about 10 kilo's of drag but it's silky smooth all the way up to that.'

Still can't work out why people have to upgrade the drag on the Spheros,the ones I've seen are fine and if they do get a little rough it's a simple case of a wash in Shellite (the washers) and a re lube.In your mates case it would appear that he has spent good money to lose about 4 kg of drag,the only mod I would consider for the Spheros off the shelf would be to replace the handle shaft/main gear bush with a bearing and I would only do this if I was going to get 'fair dinkum' about jigging.

[GPB]

The Emblem won't go the distance with constant jigging, but you can spin till the cows come home. The high line retieve is more the spool size than 5.0-1 gear ratio. I spin with my Emblem and spin and light jig with Twinpower 6000, but serious jig with Stellas or Accurates [horses for coarses].Spend the money and save the heartace.

[the_bomber]

Go for the Spheros 14000 with an upgraded Carbontex drag, that should set you back about $250. Also at a later date you can put the Stella handle on it if you want. As for retrieve ratio you'll just have to wind faster.

PlasticFantastic

Do you know how much a stella handle sells for and where Imight get one?

[rando]

Thanks guys
The guy in the tackle shop was pitching the Emblem ,but I was doubtful that it would hold -up to jigging, I didnt have a problem with its suitability for poppers.
Thanks fot the good advise, and benefit of your experience.
rando

[wheelerdog]

I use a TSS4 on a 7ft live fibre for heavy popper work. Good price reel and very strong and the retrieve is excellent.

[Luke Wyrsta]

The best advice given here for your budget would be the Shimano Spheros.

It can output around 10kg of drag pressure straight out of the box, but as has been mentioned you could consider upgrading the washers.

I would recommend using 50lb braid (not mono) for both jigging and popping...with the setup you are using, this line class would be ideal. All you are sacrificing is diameter (abraision resistance), any higher line class would be overkill for such an outfit (but not totally out of the question).

If you plan to use the same reel for both jigging and popping i would recommend the slower 4.6:1 retreive ratio of the Spheros. Despite being slower, you can still get those poppers moving pretty fast to induce strikes from GTs. The ratio is ideal for jigging.

Good luck!:)

[PlasticFantastic]

Most tackle shops can order in the Stella handles for the Spheros and I think it's about $110 depending on where you go. As for the issue of the drag we measured it outta the box and was lucky to get 6 kg drag out of it which when jigging 400 gm jigs the upstroke with the rod will pull line with that drag setting. We might have got more if we used a pair of pliers to tighten it up but it's not worth damaging the reel.

PlasticFantastic

[banshee]

So a spheros 14000 set on full drag loses line to a 400gm jig on the upstroke?Would be very interested in knowing what style of 400g jig this was.

[Luke Wyrsta]

Most tackle shops can order in the Stella handles for the Spheros and I think it's about $110 depending on where you go. As for the issue of the drag we measured it outta the box and was lucky to get 6 kg drag out of it which when jigging 400 gm jigs the upstroke with the rod will pull line with that drag setting. We might have got more if we used a pair of pliers to tighten it up but it's not worth damaging the reel.

PlasticFantastic

Can you explain more about this process you were using to measure the drag?

This has been contrary to my experiences.

[GPB]

I agree with Luke with the lower ratio for jigging, I found it hard yakka winding a 400grm jig in 80m with my Accurate Twinspin 30 [6.0:1 ratio] even when the action is done with the rod, I went back to my Stella 20000. Rando's 7'6"long T-Curve would also make it harder. I havn't heard any bad press on the Spheros and at some of the special prices around sound like value to make up a good bluewater combo.
Question for luke: Do you have any info of how gutsy/tough Spheros internals are.

[rando]

Guys
Just to explain.
I bought this rod principally as a popping rod .LBG ,or around the reef edges up at Swains etc.I thought it would possably open a way to try jigging also , I know that jig outfits need pretty robust drag systems and high retrieval rates, that was the reason for the original question.
I have just been offered the deckie spot on a mates boat for the Frazer comp and subsequent trips in the DI area so was keen to give jigging a go.
So Iwas looking for a reel to meet those needs.

My thunnus 16000. though very tough does not have an adequate drag (8kg max) and is not fast enough.
From your comments, my rod does not look ideal for jigging either.
Trouble is those jigs are so bloody expensive, using the wrong gear could cost me a bundle.
By the number of endorsements it looks like Spheros is the way to go.
Thanks for all the advise.
rando

[Kiktz]

Sounds like a square one Banshee

[banshee]

Sounds like a square one Banshee

Yeh Kiktz a lot of resistance there somewhere.

G'day Rando,mate your right with the robust drag coment but not so with the High speed (concerning jigging),the technique you develop is what's going to ultimately determin wether your on the money or not,speed will have little to with it on most days.I also agree with GPB with regards to your rod,at 7'6"the mechanical advantage to the fish is going to hurt,remember that these fights are almost exclusively up/down directly under the boat and you run the risk of breaking the rod,if the budget will stretch you may want to get an entry level jigging rod to go with the reel,probably a Silstar crystal Blue jig,not only will it dramaticaly reduce the mechanical advantage to the fish but it help with your technique and impart a better action to the jigs.

[rando]

Yeah Thanks Banshee/ everyone
Its the old story ,,,right tool for the job.
I probably wont spend money on a dedicated jig outfit till ive put a few trips behind me, and decide if thats a fishing style i like,Ill give it a go with my thunnus(cross fingers and see how it goes)
Cheers rando

[GPB]

Thunnus + T-Curve 7'6" + 50lb Braid + 200-300grm jigs = OK parttime jigger. When you catch a couple of Fish and get the bug [highly contagous] you can then worry about what you need for a dedicated outfit.
STOP PRESS: Got in touch with a Shimano tech, he recons you will stuff up your thunnus if you jig to much [tough but not designd for it], he said you can now purchase an upgraded Spheros1400 over the counter with carbonite washes and a extra bearing, a Stella handle is optional for about $100 with the handle. Some charter boats are useing them instead of Stellas or Saltegas.
Buggar! I only got my new jig reel [Stella ] 3 weeks ago, could have saved a motza.

[PlasticFantastic]

To test the drag we just hooked the scales on the end and pulled. I wasn't willing to screw the drag down fully because i've damaged the drag in a Thunnus I had. That was from over tightening it to see what drag it would pull. I guess i'm just a bit reluctent to compress another set of drag washers. In the end the Sheros is a good reel I just feel that it's alot better reel with the Carbontex drag washers in it.

PlasticFantastic

[Luke Wyrsta]

Hi GPB,

I don’t have any specific info about the internals but I can tell you that it is just about as gutsy and quality that you can get for a reel of that price. A second to none choice in my opinion for the beginning jigger/popper who doesn’t want to blow their budget. Btw, you definitely won’t regret investing in the Stella (that’s exactly what it is, an investment). It is great that there are quality lower-end reels on the market so people can experience some popping and jigging before they take the big plunge with the better gear…some sound advice that I would recommend to anyone. But regardless, if you find that you like jigging/popping, Stella will be where you want to be when you progress.

Jigs don’t have to cost you the earth either Rando, I’m not going to tell you they are better than some of the more ‘high-end’ jigs but you can still have ago with big raiders and the like which are a great compromise for a beginning jigger. You won’t feel so bad when you get smashed either;)

[rando]

Once again, valuable info from many ,, my thanks to all.
r

[GPB]

Luke: I now have two great investments, my main 20000 for 70lb / 300-400+grm jigging and a new 8000 for 50lb / -300grm fun. I recon though I may have gone for the upgraded Spheros as a second outfit if I hade known about it. Spheros sounds like the way to go for you Rando, gives you the option to get a T-Curve 400 spin [or similar] if you get half serious about jigging. Give the big T-Curve a go for now, you wont be sorry.

[banshee]

Agree about the price of jigs Luke,anyone keen on the Jigs Ace long 420/320gm at 40 plus dollars each would do well to chase up some Gladiator Head Banger 'Arrows' at about $13 each,been useing them for a couple of years now and prerty sure the fish can't tell the difference.If your not familiar with the Jigs Ace coulor schemes I think you may have trouble as well.

[Isaac]

Banshee where did you get them from, they will add to my collection of $13 willamsons nicely ;D

Interesting discussion about the drag on the Spheros, I bought one before christmas and replaced the felt washers with carbonex last week and put the stella handle and extra bearing in. Felt washers brand new out of box on the rod was 14.5 kg on new "ausfish" digital scales, carnbonex in, not yet measured but very smooth. For anyone buying a spheros make sure you take it apart and grease it with some quality grease as the one and only main bearing was dry in mine.

[Luke Wyrsta]

Agree about the price of jigs Luke,anyone keen on the Jigs Ace long 420/320gm at 40 plus dollars each would do well to chase up some Gladiator Head Banger 'Arrows' at about $13 each,been useing them for a couple of years now and prerty sure the fish can't tell the difference.If your not familiar with the Jigs Ace coulor schemes I think you may have trouble as well.

Yeah mate, i am yet to catch a quality fish on the Jigs Ace jigs but i am sure they will produce.

However, i am not happy with the finish that started to deteriorate rapidly after the first drop without any hits or bumps. I will be passing on the feedback to the distributor and/or manufacturer next chance i get.

[Luke Wyrsta]

Banshee where did you get them from, they will add to my collection of $13 willamsons nicely ;D

Interesting discussion about the drag on the Spheros, I bought one before christmas and replaced the felt washers with carbonex last week and put the stella handle and extra bearing in. Felt washers brand new out of box on the rod was 14.5 kg on new "ausfish" digital scales, carnbonex in, not yet measured but very smooth. For anyone buying a spheros make sure you take it apart and grease it with some quality grease as the one and only main bearing was dry in mine.

Shoot an email to Neil @ Jones Tackle mate.... jtackle@bigpond.com

[banshee]

Issac just about any tackle shop will have an account with 'Gladiator Tackle' get your local bloke to get them in for you,if you draw a blank shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do.
Know what your your saying about the finish on the Jigs Ace Luke,that Dorado Glow on the bottom of the pic was denuded of green before it was one session old,prety poor for a $40 jig.There's a bloke that pops up from time to time on this site called Raef Pudifoot,he scored me some prety good Jap jigs including some Fishermen,even after freight from Japan they worked out at about a quarter of the local price,he is prety good to deal with and has access to all sorts of gear (those big dumbell poppers etc)give him a yell next time he posts if your interested.

[reggy]

I have heard that Penn are about to release a larger model of their Slammer reels. This,IMO, is the best spin reel Penn make.
May be worth a look.

Reggy

[Isaac]

'A mate has the Spheros with the upgraded drag and it will hold about 10 kilo's of drag but it's silky smooth all the way up to that.'

Still can't work out why people have to upgrade the drag on the Spheros,the ones I've seen are fine and if they do get a little rough it's a simple case of a wash in Shellite (the washers) and a re lube.In your mates case it would appear that he has spent good money to lose about 4 kg of drag,the only mod I would consider for the Spheros off the shelf would be to replace the handle shaft/main gear bush with a bearing and I would only do this if I was going to get 'fair dinkum' about jigging.


Fellas I tested my carbonex drag today, with reel on rod and gimbal belt on deadlifted a 12.5kg weight (partially full 8.5kg gas bottle) with new "ausfish" scales in between. It has a touch more drag to go but my back said no more ::) , thats enough stopping power for me.

[Luke Wyrsta]

Fellas I tested my carbonex drag today, with reel on rod and gimbal belt on deadlifted a 12.5kg weight (partially full 8.5kg gas bottle) with new "ausfish" scales in between. It has a touch more drag to go but my back said no more ::) , thats enough stopping power for me.

That's great mate. For such an outfit, you really cant be asking for much more.

Hope it serves you well:)

[GPB]

::) Hade the same trouble with my first jigs, they were Ace jigs from JT 4 years ago. The outer colour/skin started peeling off after the 1st trip, we caught heaps of pearlys on the side hook placement and a few small ambos. My fishing buddies often use Knife jigs, catch all sorts of fish and don't fall apart and are budget priced. I've had no trouble with SW Lab, Sacrifice or River 2 Sea.
The Spheros drag test seems prety good, we as a standard, only run 12-14kg of drag on the Stellas and Accurate Twinspin 30 and Boss Magnum 665's, much more and you will be over the side.;D

[banshee]

Put a Spheros,eighteen months old,lives on a charter boat and is used exclusively for jigging over the scales to day,it went to 13kg before popping the knot and still had four clicks left on the drag knob, there was no noticable grab on start up and was smooth untill the knot poped.
On another note the Spheros as it is may not be for much longer,the standard version is set for an upgrade,there is a high speed version in the works but Shimano Aust are pushing to have the gearing pushed above 5 to 1,the Japs however seem to think this is where it should be and there is a full blown jigging version on the way as opposed to the modified one that's offered now,the downside is this one will be close to twice the price of the current model.

[rando]

I Better get one quick then, hey Banshee.
rando

[Luke Wyrsta]

Put a Spheros,eighteen months old,lives on a charter boat and is used exclusively for jigging over the scales to day,it went to 13kg before popping the knot and still had four clicks left on the drag knob, there was no noticable grab on start up and was smooth untill the knot poped.
On another note the Spheros as it is may not be for much longer,the standard version is set for an upgrade,there is a high speed version in the works but Shimano Aust are pushing to have the gearing pushed above 5 to 1,the Japs however seem to think this is where it should be and there is a full blown jigging version on the way as opposed to the modified one that's offered now,the downside is this one will be close to twice the price of the current model.

Considerable improvements in components, internals and overall quality could see another good option for the midpriced market with the saltiga blasts etc...

Will have to wait and see.

[banshee]

G'day Rando,the upgraded standard model and the high speed model should still slot into the same price bracket it will only be the jigging model that will cop the price rise,the bloke I spoke to seem to think they would probably be in next years releases so I wouldn't worry to much about missing out on the current model.

[Kiktz]

Just a note, I will be heading over to Singapore in the next month or so.
I go there for work an dcan pick up jigs fairly cheap. If some of you guys would like me to find out what I can get shoot me a pm of what you are looking for and I shall du my best

Cheers Aj

[Luke Wyrsta]

Just a note, I will be heading over to Singapore in the next month or so.
I go there for work an dcan pick up jigs fairly cheap. If some of you guys would like me to find out what I can get shoot me a pm of what you are looking for and I shall du my best

Cheers Aj

Make sure you include a clause about the extra weight charges;D :o

[rando]

Banshee
1. If i have read correctly The upgraded version has carbontex dragwashers,and a bearing instead of a bush on the main shaft with an option to fit a Stella handle . Is this correct or are there other modifications as well .
2. Who does the modification, ? factory/ distributor, Tackleshop , or after market service.
cheers
rando

[banshee]

The reels are ordered out of Shimano direct (prety sure their techs in Sydney are doing the work) and have an upgraded Carbonite drag ( I would say their version of carbonex ?), Stella handle and the handle shaft/main gear gets the bush replaced with a bearing.They also combo this out with a T-Curve Spin jig 400.

[rando]

Thanks mate, i'll talk to Niel at Jonestackle.
rando

[banshee]

Thanks mate, i'll talk to Niel at Jonestackle.
rando

Last time I was in there I came across a young (Compared to me) South African bloke working there(Tim?),if he's in there see if you can corner him as he had some really good advice on jig selection/technique.

[rando]

Thanks mate.
Thats my local so Im in there a bit.

[rando]

OK, Guys I now have conflicting info.
I had a chat a tackle shop near my work. Its well known to ausfishers , and the rep there expressed the view that the spheros1200 was a better reel than the 1400. Whats your views on the comparative merits of each reel.?
Cheers
rando

[GPB]

Rando, you are after a HEAVY DUTY popping jigging outfit.
Compare: Spheros,,,,,,,,, 12000 ,,,,,,,,14000
Retreive per crank .............. 39"..............40"
Drag Std ........................... 9kg............11kg,,
Line Cap 20lb mono.......... 265..............350
Weight gms....................... 805............ 820
Gear Ratio....................... 4.6:1.......... 4.6:1
Off the net price............. $ 219........ ..$ 229

Unless the rep had given me a compelling reason in favour of the 12000, If I was buying I'd be spending the extra $ 10.

[rando]

Thanks mate, his view was thast the 1200 was a better built reel ,, same as the stella 10 being a better reel than the 20???( in his opinion)
I dont know any of these reels so I cant give an opinion .
Suffice to say I asked WHY,,,, it was about then that a client walked in and i had to hang up, so i didnt get an answer.
if you own or have used these reels ie stella 10 ,20 spheros 12-14 I am interested in your view.
rando

[GPB]

My favourite jigging setup is the Stella 20000 with a T-Curve 400 loaded with 70lb Jigman Braid. I have a heavier out fit as in a Accurate Twinspin 30 that I had on a GH 30-80 Samurai 6' but found the 6:1 ratio was a killer on me [just jigging] not the fish. The reel is now on holidays in NZ chasing Y/T Kings on a T-C 400 [more balanced] and I now have a Stella 8000 on the GH rod with 50lb braid, which I hope to christen on Sunday with some mixed reef and med sized ambo's.
The diferance between the Stella 20000 [jigging] and the 10000 [popping] is gear ratio and Spool size.
We started jigging with Accurate 665 [another top reel] overhead reels on T-C 400's but found spin reels much easier, they are now Red Emp rigs.
These are my opinions only from my experiances over the last 4-5 years as in what suits me and my 56yo frame, catching good snapper, pp, tuna and ambo's up to 22kg. I think the shop rep must have a popping opinion.
I believe the Spheros [upgraded] 14000 on a T-C 400 is a good value rig.
Horses for Coarses
PS. I have no opinion on Saltigas [sound very good] because I havn't tried one, although I did do a little bit of homework on the Burst Before I bought the Stella 8000.
I seem to always go for Shimano.;D I:heart: :heart: :heart: them.:laola:

[Luke Wyrsta]

Thanks mate, his view was thast the 1200 was a better built reel ,, same as the stella 10 being a better reel than the 20???( in his opinion)
I dont know any of these reels so I cant give an opinion .
Suffice to say I asked WHY,,,, it was about then that a client walked in and i had to hang up, so i didnt get an answer.
if you own or have used these reels ie stella 10 ,20 spheros 12-14 I am interested in your view.
rando

Hi Rando,

I have owned just about every reel on the market for popping. I have used each extensively and have caught very decent fish on each.

Despite allegiances and all that, i would never turn on the Stella series. They are favoured and most popular popping reel amongst the GT fraternity in Japan. That tells you something.

I regards to this bloke who gave you the advice, perhaps he meant specifications wise....he likes the faster retrieve ratio of the 10k to the slower of the 20k, or the casting spool of the 10k. Regardless, they are both great reels which can both be used for popping. Some people like the powerful retrieve ratio and large capacity of the 20k wheras some like the higher gear ratio and better casting performance of the 10k. It is totally up to the angler, no one is necessarily better. Today, i usually have 1 10k and 20k rigged up with different type poppers.

It was only last week that i was using big chuggers and high speed pencils/stickbaits on the same 20k reel.

The Spheros provides a great option for someone wanting to 'test the water' in regards to popping. They are great value and performance for money. Although i strictly adhere by the 'best of the best' for this sport (targeting the biggest of GTs), i do encourage beginners to start out with this kind of gear before they go spluring thousands! In this sport you need to have money, time and determination...and it's not everyday that you see super-sized GTs, you will start to develop the knowledge and drive to find the bigger ones after you get some experience....if you don't it isn't worth getting into. However, if you know you are already hooked...definately get the Stella upfront.

I hope my rant has answered your questions.

[rando]

All Gold Luke!!!./GPB/Banshee.
Thanks
My thinking exactly, I will be shopping for a speros 14 as an entry ,then see where it goes from there.
You guys have been so helpful, Many manyThanks!!!
rando

[Luke Wyrsta]

All Gold Luke!!!./GPB/Banshee.
Thanks
My thinking exactly, I will be shopping for a speros 14 as an entry ,then see where it goes from there.
You guys have been so helpful, Many manyThanks!!!
rando

No dramas mate. Drop me a line anytime if you need help.

[evil]

OK, Guys I now have conflicting info.
I had a chat a tackle shop near my work. Its well known to ausfishers , and the rep there expressed the view that the spheros1200 was a better reel than the 1400. Whats your views on the comparative merits of each reel.?
Cheers
rando

Hi rando, as far as I know the body is the same, you can purchase a 12000 spool and put it on the 14000 or vice versa.

Cheers

[pterry]

hi rando, this site might help:

http://www.pickyguide.com/sports_and_recreation/fishing_reels_guide.html

[GPB]

Reading the Schematics of both, they have different bodys as in 1200 is smaller, different spools but same internals.

[Splash]

The best advice given here for your budget would be the Shimano Spheros.

It can output around 10kg of drag pressure straight out of the box, but as has been mentioned you could consider upgrading the washers.

I would recommend using 50lb braid (not mono) for both jigging and popping...with the setup you are using, this line class would be ideal. All you are sacrificing is diameter (abraision resistance), any higher line class would be overkill for such an outfit (but not totally out of the question).

If you plan to use the same reel for both jigging and popping i would recommend the slower 4.6:1 retreive ratio of the Spheros. Despite being slower, you can still get those poppers moving pretty fast to induce strikes from GTs. The ratio is ideal for jigging.

Good luck!:)

My turn for a beef >:( ...

I have just purchased a saltist 30th 6.4:1 gear ratio because I wanted an overhead reel specifically for jigging. The daiwa site actually states that this reel partiuclar reel with this ratio is designed with jigging in mind. I read others on this site and other forum sites also state that 6.4:1 is also preferred for jigging. Even the shop dealer who sold me the reel agrees with this statement.

Now, I read in this thread that 4.6:1 is the IDEAL ratio for jigging.

I heavily rely on all your great input for my purchases and actions - and also understand we all have different opions with differnet methods of fishing, but soemtimes I feel dismayed when I read the differnet opinions and ask myself - have I screwed up and purchased the wrong reel?

Thoughts?

Splash

[rando]

Splash,
I am still by no means an expert but I think it has more to do with the action you impart to the jig rather than flat out speed.
All you gurus feel free to confirm or otherwise.
Cheers

[Splash]

Thansk Rando.

WHy do people refer to "the ideal jigging ratio" then?

What is the ideal taper/build for a jig stick to achieve the best action needed for jigging?

Splash

[rando]

Still too low on the learning curve to asist you Splash, The helpful blokes who originally answered my queries may come to your assistance ,or give one of them a PM.