GETTING RUBBED OFF! Fact or Fiction?

[T1]

Hi All

Thinking about the amount of people that say they got 'rubbed off' when fighting a fish...

Is it really the case or is it that we don't like to admit to ourselves that our knot was crap on that occassion (we all have the odd failure...)? I know I have never blamed anything i've lost on being 'rubbed off' due to a number of factors when you consider the circumstances and physics of it all. Mind you that is not to say that doesn't happen but does it happen as often as we believe or led to believe?

Consider this... When you're running a long leader and all you get back is your main line, you would have to be inclined to say that your knot or main line failed. When you get most of your leader back, it would also be a distinct possibility that your knot at the hook/jighead failed or you were clean bitten off.

To be rubbed off, the physics don't really add up that well! You're on top of the water (at least a metre or so from the surface to your rod tip), and your line attached to the fish (to get rubbed off) is on the bottom. Does the angle of your line lend itself to being rubbed off as for this to happen, your line would have to be running horizontal and parallel to the bottom. A fish perhaps may play dodgem cars with the reef but a 'bigger' one will be firing in a straight line just above the bottom.

Again, it's not to say it doesn't happen but does it happen as often as reported??

Take Care T

[trueblue]

Don't think there is any easy answer for that.

I'm pretty aware of what my braid looks like if it let go on the knot at the Leader, and I'm pretty aware of what my leader looks like when the knot at the hook let go. I had plenty of experience at that before I changed knots and learned how to tie them properly.

I know that I have been 'rubbed off' on reefs etc when fishing near big bombies and shallow ledges and the fish has gone over / around it, but the line normally tells that story - all chewed up and damaged from rubbing over the rock / coral.

Bite offs are normally straight away, so if it wasn't a bite off, or a knot failure........


Cheers

Mick

[T1]

Hey MICK

I think the exception in the main is probably the one you've mentioned and that is where you are fishing over big bombies but i'm not sure that these exist around Moreton Bay? Certainly in the Whitsundays that is the case though...

Take Care T

[NAGG]

Just look for the curly end of your line or leader ....... If you have it.... your knot has failed !:'( Clean cuts or abrasions = beyond our control (more or less). NAGG

[cuzzamundi]

you'll normally have some fraying just before the spot where the line has been severed - always a sign of being rubbed off. if you get a pig's tail, then your know has failed. we get rubbed off all the time by submarines around the place.

cuzza

[djboyd]

If you think that you can't get rubbed off in the bay you are living in an idealistic world. Take a look around the shallows at mud island.
Whether it be the tiddlers that will take you around a rock before having a feed to hide from prey or the 4 kilo snapper that i have pulled from 5ft of water. Take a look at a big fish pulled from the shallows, there will be patches of scales missing from the fish, this is caused during the fight due to the fish trying to snap the line during the fight. Reef fish in general do not sit up a metre from the bottom and run in a straight line. they will fight like the clappers until you get them up that metre, then your job is made easier with no bottom to contend with.
If a fisherman can't tell the difference between knot slip and a rub off he can,t call himself a fisherman can he?
But a lot of blokes fall into the category of the old saying,
"CAN'T LET THE TRUTH GET IN THE WAY OF A GOOD STOREY" hey:P

[Pistol_P]

I love getting rubbed off....;) ;D ;D ;D

[Jeremy87]

bet you do Pete, The wello drop off doesnt have the same sought of structure that peel or mud or saint has its quite easy for relatively small fish to do you with ease around the right sought of coral.

[Pistol_P]

bet you do Pete, The wello drop off doesnt have the same sought of structure that peel or mud or saint has its quite easy for relatively small fish to do you with ease around the right sought of coral.

......A bit sad...but someone had to say it...;D

[trueblue]

Hey MICK

I think the exception in the main is probably the one you've mentioned and that is where you are fishing over big bombies but i'm not sure that these exist around Moreton Bay? Certainly in the Whitsundays that is the case though...

Take Care T

Hutchies, flinders, smiths, curtain, mud, scarb, harry's reefs etc, etc, etc - and pylons all can take a large toll of rub offs if thats what you want to call it. High tension line meets sharp object and tries to turn a corner

Bricked.......

cheers

Mick

[imnotoriginal]

You can be rubbed off on gill rakers and the rough skin of some species of fish. Rocks and stuff in the water, particularly when fishing for jacks, cod etc.. can cause a rub off. Jetty fishing, I've been rubbed off plenty of times. I know the strength of my knots, and you can often feel when the line is being frayed by friction, it is distinctly different to just the normal pull of line, and in heavy mono you can hear it really well.
Joel

[Adamy]

Whew... At first I thought this was going to be a really dodgy thread!!::)

Hey T... remember that day you took your mate Pete out to Wello and we (George and I) were there as well? That day we in the boat were on the Wello (king island) side of the ledge, I had a squire or snapper grab the placcy which was being floated mid-water, the thing ran and kept running towards Moreton, as it got closer to the ledge I felt it dive, the line connected with the structure and ping it was all over - took about 5 seconds. I wouldnt say it did it on purpose although it may have - I just think it was a natural consequence of the fish diving towards the bottom and the line connecting with the top of the ledge.

When I retrieved the line it was all scratched up - no pig tails, no clean bite offs - So yeh I'd call that a "rub off" and probably not an isolated incident - which is as you say one reason you use 16lb leader and not 10 as I was using that day.

In my opinion being rubbed off is totally different to getting bricked - as when you get bricked the fish swims into a hole and stays there resulting in a "snag" although I guess there is always the possibility that you could get rubbed off while the fish is trying to "brick" you!;D

Good luck this weekend - and hope you dont get your own question answered!:P

Adam

[Scalem]

Hmmm...

I have not really taken account of how many times my leader comes back looking like a half peeled banana..... But I guess that when you fish with braid you will feel that classic " Oh Buggar, he's stuck his head in the coral" kinda feel before that all too familiar PING...

I'll pay more attention next time T, and if I see you at Wello today ( yep, as usual can't sleep before a session) when I hold up my fingers, it's not because I am making a rude gesture, it will be the number of times I have been rubbed off.::)

Scalem

[Poodroo]

The title should have been "Getting Rubbed off!Fact or Friction?"::) I actually know when I am going to get rubbed off because I can feel it when the fish is taking a run and can feel the rubbing through the braid and rod. After losing the fish I then wind in and have to put a new trace on because of the bad fraying. Rarely have I experienced a knot failure but it has happened to me. Usually it is where the braid and leader are tied together.

Poodroo

[Noelm]

a lot of drama occurs when the line touches the dry and hot gunwhale rubber on your boat, just for kicks try this little "trick" at home, get some 24KG (50lb) or so line, tie one end off or get some one to hold it, pull the other end to get some tension on it, then get a simple old handkercheif (or a bit of dry rag) and rub the line quite rapidly while applying some pressure with your fingers, while it is under tension, you will be amazed at how little it takes to "melt" the line through (a good party trick for fishermen)

[Horse]

Good topic T1.
I definitely have had a lot of fish lost with very scuffed leaders. This could be from the fish itself or bottom structure. I think that Squire fight pretty cleanly but Grassies, Cod, Trout and the occasional Tusky probably have not read the proper rules of engagement

I have lost more fish through dodgy knots and hooks straightening than being definitively rubbed off.


Cheers

Neil

[rando]

I have had a lot of fish lost recently through line breaking, and i asked last week if anyone has some answers.
Cheech and I fish together a fair bit and we have been having similiar results with bust offs.
We both fish with drags set well below accepted levels ie 33% of breaking strain, so we are confident we are not over taxing the gear.
We very rarely have knot failure, and in the rare cases it does happen I always regard such an event as "operator error" careless behaviour... well tied knots dont fail.
The recent exception to this is a number of bimini knots have failed for both of us. Bimini are one of the few 100% strength knots and we tie them well , so this is a conundrum.
Clean breaks in the leader can be eliminated as bite-offs(maybe),,, bad luck!
Abrasion on the leader means contact with ,,,, something
Breaks in the braid????? I suspect this is contact with structure, where we fish is mostly pretty flat rubble grounds so how does the line make contact with the bottom. As I said its got me buggered.
But given that we dont overdo the drag, that the knots we tie will do the job, that the area is not particularly rough, how do i explain a well hooked fish ,on for several minutes, lost and a broken line. ???

[T1]

Great responses guys!

I probably didn't get my point across well in my original post but it was designed to get those who may not be as experienced as some of us thinking about what went wrong when it all falls apart... I personally just think that the term 'getting rubbed off' is overused but as DJBOYD stated earlier, 'you can't let the truth get in the way of a good story...'

RANDO, i think part of our failures at the moment is TINN and i both have new braid. I'm not doing anything differently to what i normally do and that is tie a good reliable knot when joining braid and fluro. ADAMY suggested that the braid just has to soften a bit so i'm hoping that's the case! I lost 5 good fish today but only one to line/knot failure... Coincidentally, i did get 'rubbed off' on one (the other 3 spat hooks close to the boat).

Take Care T

[webby]

If you lost 5 good fish your not doing something right or not holding the mouth right.
I've actually had big snapper head butt rocks or pinnacles trying to dislodge the hurt.
regards

[NAGG]

Here is one for you all ........ I was setting up a new outfit today & while trying to join 14lb braid to 50lb fluoro using a modified uni knot ...... I kept breaking the braid when tightening up the knot ...... Yes I had to use a fair bit of pressure on the knot to tightening it up ....... but I've never seen braid bust like this ... & not at the knot! ( .. its squidgy braid ... YUK!) ....... The only other thing I could put it down to was that I used a little Lanox on the reel just prior:-/ :-/ :-/ strange ! NAGG

[Feral]

Well I have been "broken off" arounds snags etc, particulary when using braid. It is sad fact that all that extra touch braid gives you means you can feel the rotten fishing take you round a log or snag quite well!

As for rubbed off, dunno, I certainly have lost a few lures when in the excitement of the catch, I have cast straight back out without checking the line. Only to see in another 2 or 3 casts the lure sailing away with the leader parted in the middle! does that count?

[BLOOEY]

Thought id chime in and show a pic of knot failure for those that canot diferentiate.

[johnlikes2fish]

Fishing form the land where the angle of the line is less than on boats I have occasionally been rubbed off by the body or gills of the fish, I generally fish mono down to the hook and sometimes get back line which is frayed over a large length, I think you can occasionally feel the tail hitting the line, I guess thats what it is and once I feel that I know it is but a short time till the line goes slack and I lose my terminal tackle. Getting rubbed against rock/coral/submmerged branches with 6lb mono it is over pretty quick. You can tell knot failure generally by the curly end.

[T1]

If you lost 5 good fish your not doing something right or not holding the mouth right.
I've actually had big snapper head butt rocks or pinnacles trying to dislodge the hurt.
regards

You're right WEBBY!

Spit Hook 1 - on the phone >:(
Spit Hook 2 - did nothing dfifferent to what i'd normally do...
Rub Off - on the phone (needed to apply hurt early)... >:(
Knot/Line failure - If it was a knot failure, then that is my fault but if it was line, hard to fix blame (knot failures are more difficult to tell when using braid...).
Spit Hook 3 - see (2) above

So perhaps i can take blame for 3 of the 5 above. With the spat hooks, i did have the jighead a little further into the SP that day and perhaps i should have used a 5/0 but hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Nonetheless Brian, more than happy to take a lesson or 3 off you in the near future and i'ma more than capable deckie...

Take Care T

[Feral]

Thought id chime in and show a pic of knot failure for those that canot diferentiate.

I have noticed that the flouro leader still looks the same as mono when a knot fails, so much for it not having any memory eh? ::)

[Brett1907]

Have had all of the above happen. I now tie a double in my braid so I know if the knot fails.

Rub offs around fallen trees and snags targeting Jacks.
Rub offs on pylons targeting trevors & Jacks under bridges.
Spat hooks on a number of occasions and many locations.
Bricked by things unkown.

My mate had his mono 'bead' after a 2.5 hour fight chasing the hooked shark. The line finally broke!

Clean bite offs repeatedly on line up to 15kg, still not sure what it was.

AND a spectacular knot failure. Tried a new knot, went fishing with Geoff72 and threw my second cast. 'TING' and the SP just keeps going!! Geoff turned to say what a cast (It went a LONG way) and just started laughing at me standing there. I was just holding my rod at a funny angle looking at the double. I gave up for the day.

So I think I know the difference now.

Brett

[Tinn]

It is all part of the fishing experience T1

[kingkev]

Not sure where you all fish but up here in Townsville and the surrounding area, if you hook on to a salmon (threadfin) and your leader is less than 20lb, the sand-paper mouths that these fish have will rub you off before you land it. 40lb-plus nylon leader gives you a better chance of landing a threadie. Their lips are like sandpaper and when they leap and carry on your nylon gets a good rubbing

Happy fishing

[hook-line-sinker]

I have noticed that when using running sinkers, the line can get frayed just above the swivel, where the sinker "runs".

I guess this means the sinker has a little burr, or irregularity, where the line hole is. And I guess this means I am a bit slack for not checking!

I think that bust-offs can occur where this fraying weakens the line.

I now check the last metre of line above the sinker from time to time. It's surprising how often I find it frayed, so I just cut it off and tie a new knot at the swivel. .....a bit of a bore - but a whole lot better than a bust off on the odd occasion that I hook a decent fish!