troopy steering issues help please

[JEWIENEWIE]

I need some help or advice please. I have a 2000 model landcruieser troop carrier 4.5l petrol. Over the past few months i have noticed that when cornering, if the front end hits some uneven or rough road, the steering wheel will violently shake nearly being ripped out of my hands. This will happen randomly, it soesnt mtter if turning left or right, and it is nearly impossible to control the vehicle. I have to nerly cone to a full stop before it goes. I have had a new steering dampner fitted no change, tyres balaanced and aligned, no change, new tyres on front, no change. When the vehicle is stationary, if i shake the steering wheel from side to side there is a faint knocking noise, could this be the problem or maybe shockies, she has done 145000ks and been a gem since new until now. Any advice woul be greatly appreciatled. Vehicle has been put up on hoist by mechanic and inspected various joints etc with no visible problem.
Frustrated!!!!!!
Jewie

[Brett1907]

Sounds like the stearing box. If you are on the Gold Coast, go see the boys at the neumans servo on Isle of Capri. The mechanics there are magicians when it comes to toyotas. The owner and a couple of the mechs worked at toyota for years (I think the owner was service manager). I take all my utes & the missus car there.

Brett

[GBC]

Like what Brett said.

Steering boxes on the leaf sprung models,

Trailing arms to axle welds and stripped panhards to look for on the coilies.

None of the above are difficult to repair, but aren't too easy to break either so it would have hit something maybe???


Good luck with it.

C.J.

[JEWIENEWIE]

Thanks for the tips boys. I to thought it must be in the steering box. This model has coils on the front cj so will inspect axle welds and panhards, i have not hit anything hartd on the front end but i got the vehicle when she had done 35000ks so it may have happened before i got her but the problem has only occured in the last few months.
Jewie

[akman1]

Its a scary feeling at 100k
Go and get a proper wheel alignment,you will find that the caster is out (think of a dodgy shopping trolley),the way to fix it is to use offset trailingarm bushes.

[JEWIENEWIE]

Cant find any problem with the panhards, so i think akman1 might be on the money. She is booked in tomorrow for a thorough check by anothr mechanic, heres hoping i can find the problem and a not to expensive solution. Thanks guys.
Jewie

[snasman]

My quess would have to be shockies,they are critical in troupies ,did you notice any flat spots on your old tyres if so this is a giveaway that they need replacing.good luck with it m8

[JEWIENEWIE]

snasman, shockies eh, good point, now that you mention it the old tyres had what the tyre mechanic said had been scalloping? When i asked him how to stop it he seemed real vague about it so i prtty much dismissed that theory but may have to bring it back into the equation. Could flat spoting be described as scalloping?
Jewie

[murf]

snasman, shockies eh, good point, now that you mention it the old tyres had what the tyre mechanic said had been scalloping? When i asked him how to stop it he seemed real vague about it so i prtty much dismissed that theory but may have to bring it back into the equation. Could flat spoting be described as scalloping?
Jewie

scalloping? I have had a set of tyres self destroy arter developing a tread lug wear of high at the front of the lug and low at the rear of the lug, looked like 3mm differance on each lug. the supper diggers only lasted 50,000km, Hilux used to get up a bounce at the end at 60km/hr. replaced with Cooper ATs and got 110,000km? shocks were fine just tyres prob?

when shocks are U/S when on dirt roads they will throw the car arround or wander all over the place.

good luck with it

Cheers Murf

[JEWIENEWIE]

Thanks Murf, but i have had new tyres fitted to the front and still have the problem. Could having split rims be a cause?
Jewie

[JEWIENEWIE]

Murf, from Corindi mate, spent a week in the caravan park there last year, thought it was bloody awesome. Lauched at Arrawarra and headed out to the island and had a ball mate, Kingies trevors and even got some beatiful snapps on the way home on a patch of reef. I live in Byron so it is that close i will be down there a bit in the future i think. Beatiful place, except for the group of idiots running amock, they ended calling the police and there was a mini riot!! Bloody Hell!
I just want to drink my beer by the fire not try and defend my family from a pack of young punks!
Jewie

[murf]

if its done 145,000kms on the original shocks its a fair bet that they are U/S even if they are not causing the problem you are experiencing

sounds bigger than just shocks but they could be a contributer to the problem overall?

Have fun :)

Murf

[snasman]

yes m8 thats it, scalloping is the tech term so I didnt want to confuse any 1,that is the defanent sign that your shockies are u,s (unserviceable) replace them first and im positive that your problem will be gone.

[JEWIENEWIE]

Well i just got truck back from mechanic and they did a thorough check of whole front end and suspension , steering etc and they found no problems at all, everything looks a1 they sdaid so i think that you are on the money snasman. The only thing left is the shockies which will be replaced next week. One comment that the young apprentice did say is that maybe the pressure valve in the power steering is going off randomly?? His boss brushed it off but the look on the young fellas face made me think twice. Is it possible?
Frustrated!
Jewie

[snasman]

no m8 I wouldnt be looking at the steering box ,please keep me posted of the out come after youve had the shockies replaced (just so you know Ive spent over 20 years in the suspension game) it did surprise me when you mentioned about the tyres and the mechanic just shrugged, thats first year apprentice stuff.If your north bris based(or dont mind travelling) p.m me and Ill have a look at it 4 you,shockies on 4x4s are hard to diagnos unless they are leaking as the springs are so dam hard to compensate for the extra wait of everything being built a bit tuffer than cars ,with a car you bounce the vehicle a few times and count the amount of rebounds any more than 3 and your shocks are stuffed with a 4x4 its impossible to bounce unless the springs and shocks are really really stuffed good luck with it m8 hope I helped .

[akman1]

No offence guys,but been there done that,the only thing that will fix it is a proper wheel alignment as the caster is out.I spent ages trying to find the cause when it happened to me '78 coilspring frontend which has had a hard life,hasnt been a problem for the last 20000k.Very hard to diagnose as it is not every bump or corner that it will do it on,you could drive 100km and not do it then might do it 10times in 5km and as I said before it is pretty scary at 100k around a corner on a busy road and have to get back to 30k before it stops.

[snasman]

hey jewienewie ,I just read your post properly with reguards to the pressure valve in your p/s pump if this was the problem your steering would either A" be extremly hard(heavy) as the valve would be stopping the fluid from going through your steering rack(BOX) ,this generally causes your p/s pump to deform ie its over presurized and will either bend the surround around the pump and leak badly or if real bad blow itself in two pieces.or B" your steering will be very very light as the valve is locked in the open position not regulating the fluid going through your pump and all the pressure is being taken by your steering rack(BOX) and will cause damage to this,this is the worst of the 2 as a pump and rack replacement is a lot dearer tham just a pump.its been some years since ive been under the bonnet of a toyota so I cant remember what brand of pump they use from memory they were a fairly solid cast type if this is the case you wont see the pump swell .I hope I havent lost you there with this but I've never seen a toyota pump have a sticky relief valve so I could understand why the mechanic brushed off his young fella. Cheers Snas



O WHAT A FEELING

[JEWIENEWIE]

No offence guys,but been there done that,the only thing that will fix it is a proper wheel alignment as the caster is out.I spent ages trying to find the cause when it happened to me '78 coilspring frontend which has had a hard life,hasnt been a problem for the last 20000k.Very hard to diagnose as it is not every bump or corner that it will do it on,you could drive 100km and not do it then might do it 10times in 5km and as I said before it is pretty scary at 100k around a corner on a busy road and have to get back to 30k before it stops.

This is excactly whats happening mate, i will go get wheel alignment monday first as cheaper option at the moment, if no joy, new shockies all round.
Even more frustrated!
Jewienewie

[JEWIENEWIE]

Well, the saga continues. I just spoke to a 4wd specialist over the phone, described my trucks symptoms and he gave me a direct answer in about 5 secs flat. He said simply that my camber is out and will need new camber bushes and then a wheel alighnment. As i was describing the issues he interjected and finished off what i was about to say. First prize goes to akman1. Second prize goes to snasman, thanks mate, mechanic also said shockies will deffinately exagerate the problem. So she is booked in monday,so heres hoping i have the problem solved, will keep you posted and thanks heaps for all your input. You guys just saved me a whack of money. Makes me wonder about all the other mechanics i have been using if this guy can diagnose it over the phone?
A little less frustrated!
Jewienewie

[JEWIENEWIE]

Next saga, Well i took the truck to a SPECIALIST to try and get problem sorted. The mechanic checked the vehicle over thoroughly and suprise suprise, he could not find a problem!!
He gave it a proper wheel alighnmenty and said it had slight tow out, but all bushes linkages etc were in top condition?
He suggested fitting new shocks as previously said and if that does not solve it, he will fit a CASTOR KIT AND BUSHES? Now boys, i am a surf coach so it all pretty much went over my head but he said something like the castor height may be to hight or to low not sure at what he was saying, and by offsetting the castor it may sove the problem. Because the vehicle has not had the problem under tow because the cstor height changes hence no problem. He said the problem is pretty common with patrols, suprise suprise again, but not all that common with troopies.
Does this make any sense to anyone? After reding the material he gave me on the castor kit and what it does, the symptons that my trck have do fit the symptons this kit says it will fix. The castor kit is far from cheap so your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Lost, confused and really frustrated now!!!

Jewie

[murf]

I hate it when you get a shopping trolly with castor/camber problems (wobbly wheel) so you must be frustrated :(

So many so called experts and not one can pick it on a machine is very sad.

I hope someone can get to the bottom of it for you

Cheers Murf

[gone_fishing]

ive seen this prob before steering chucks a wobbley at incosistant times
its is with out seeing it a guess but the same symptoms
it is a caster problem due to wear in the radius rods (that go from the diff houing to the chassis) this is very hard to check as a guy with a bar cant replicate a 2 ton vechiles turning forcce
im not 100% on the style but most have 2 bushes at the diff on each side
they look ok but get to soft
expecially if the vechile has been fitted with a lift kit or has larger wheels the problem is more apparent
as i mentioned its is a difficult problem to iscolate to rectify somtimes you might have to bit the bullet and replace the bushes
hope this is helpful
all the best

[snasman]

Ok m8 Ill try and explain this without to much tech jargon to correctly carry out a castor adjustment on on vehicle with non adjustable castor rods/arms/ bushes you need to do the wheel alingment first, then IF!!! your castor is out you need to replace the castor bushes with offset bushes the tricky part is where to set the bush back in the arm, once this is done you have to put it all back together and then carry out another wheel alingment and readjust everything I mean everything camber and toe, most probably after this is done you will be told that you now need camber adjusters another great expence then another wheel alingment in most cases the big brand outlets wouldnt have a clue how to do this accuretly but are more than happy to take your hard earned dollars,and give you an excuse that something is bent,when its still not right. suspension parts have the most increadible mark up in prices most shockies on the market come with at least a 50% mark up minium take a look at what the owner is driving and then decide. In 20 years the only time ive had to do this kind of work is when people bring in highly modified vehicles ie MASSIVE lift kits.My advice, get a friend in the auto game and get him to by and replace your shockies first or at least buy them with a trade order form,pm me and ill send you down a trade order form at least you will save a few bucks that way ,hope it helps Snas

[snasman]

Oh 1 more thing is it the independant front end or a solid axel front end model.

[B00NY]

Hi JEWIE when you've had your wheel-alignment's did you ever get a print out from it or ask to see the spec's on the job card . But be careful when asking for a print out as the price of the wheel-alignment may increase, if you can get the spec's and post them in the forum then we can see how far out the caster, camber & toe is out in clueding the setback
cheers David;)

[murf]

Gday Jewie

how did you go with it

Cheers Murf

[JEWIENEWIE]

@$#%^! NIGHTMARE MATE. Went to get the shockies replaced and was bluntly told that that is not the problem but he cant find the problem!
I am 99.9% convinced that it is as i have been getting unusual tyre ware on the front which is also consistant with stuffed front shocks. I have ordered a pair of ome nitro shocks which i will have fitted next week. The truck will not have the problem when i am towing the boat or a trailer as the castor height is raised marginally thus no problem. The best advice i have been given is to put on the nitro shockies which will raise the front marginally hopefully stoopping the problem. The current shocks are the original and have done around the 150 000 mark so they have sagged and are pretty cactus. This has been the most consitant and obvious solution that i have been given so i will know next week, hopefully it is the right call if not i really dont know what to do, look for a new rig maybe?
Jewie

[JEWIENEWIE]

So guys, thought i would give an update on the issue i have been having. After several months of different opinions from mechanics to 4wd specialists, me putting it in the to hard basket and an extremely busy time, i thought i need to deal with the problem and get to the bottom of it. I did a process of elimination from the cheapest option first and work my way up. First option Proper wheel alignment and balance, No Joy.:(
New tyres all round, no joy.:'(
Mechanic swore i need castor kit, ordered it, didnt feel right to me , gut feeling, cancell order go some where else. >:(
Another specialists suggested camber kit?
After reading through the previous posts on this subject that you guys posted, i thought bugger it, new shocks all round even thought on guy said the problem is more than that. Old Man Emu Nitro all round please, at around $650 in total(snasman, the order form didnt work, they were straight onto me, thanks anyway) It better sove the problem.
Even when i dropped the truck off they still said it was more than that. Picked her up yesterday arvo, headed straight to the corner where the problem always is present and nothing, smooth as bloody silk! YOU BLOODY RIPPER.
I cannot belive the difference in the handling of the vehicle. I guess i just had become use to it.
Thanks for all your help guys, what a relief.
FIRST PRIZE GOES TO SNASMAN WHO SUGGESTED NEW SHOCKS WITH CONFIDENCE FROM THE START. Cheers Mate.
One relieved Jewienewie;D ;D

[Roughasguts]

scalloping? I have had a set of tyres self destroy arter developing a tread lug wear of high at the front of the lug and low at the rear of the lug, looked like 3mm differance on each lug. the supper diggers only lasted 50,000km, Hilux used to get up a bounce at the end at 60km/hr. replaced with Cooper ATs and got 110,000km? shocks were fine just tyres prob?

when shocks are U/S when on dirt roads they will throw the car arround or wander all over the place.

good luck with it

Cheers Murf

I have founf scalloping is due to under inflation, on a cheaper tyre.
And usually only effects the tyres on the rear of the vehicle.

Tyres I found effected, Silverstone, and Toyo's.

When you find scalloping throw the tyre away.

[murf]

sweet mate

cheers Murf