BARRA DEATHS TOO MANY

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

This topic has been aired before, but I am noticing and observing mistreatment of some bigger barra at Lake Awoonga by many anglers. I had a charter a few days ago with 2 clients that were interested in trolling. We trolled, hooked and released one barra in amongst many boats. Another boat hooked up not far from us, so we continued fishing at a distance observing these lucky anglers with a good fish. It was netted and boated, a nice barra. We hooked up again, and one client played and landed a metre plus barra which we photographed and released in well under a minute. We re-set lines once again and hooked another good fish which escaped shortly into the fight. We set the lines again as we observed the other anglers photographing their catch,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,only to then watch as they tried to revive the fish and I imagine, it swam off, or sank from sight!!
10 mins would have passed from the point of landing to the time this fish went back into the water. WAY TOO LONG FOR ANY CHANCE OF SURVIVAL!! We also watched another boat hold a barra from the water for well over 5 mins (timed), and then watched it be hung from the jaw by one hand before it was tried to be revived. it died!!! How Obvious was that Outcome?!?! This fish was taken and utilised I imagine, as the boat left the lake shortly afterward.
Barra are not tough fish, certainly not as tough as eastuary cod for example. High water temps and low levels of oxygen are a problem on their own, yet mass time out of water is EXTREMELY DETRIMENTAL to the barramundi's chance of survival. Many fish are found floating dead and rotting, many more washed up on our foreshore's, and oil slicks seem to wander the surface trailing from decaying fatty fish.
Anglers who see a barra swim free are not guaranteed the success of the release was 100%. No one is guaranteed, but certain behaviour is far from acceptable especially when the fish being captured are around 5 to 8 yrs old! The chances of these bigger fish having being captured and successfully released by more than just one angler before in their earlier life is very high, and it is very unfortunate to see their demise from incorrect handling, considering that these bigger fish have done it hard in their life and probably well deserve another go at life and to hopefully fulfill another person's dream of landing a "Whopper!"

Proper education I feel is a must, and possibly TV commercials, or, the distribution of some fliers or handouts, as similar to the post that we on AUSFISH created a month or more back could be turned into something very useful. The wider community I feel, (all anglers included) should read and understand the tactics required for satisfactory releases to ensure future generations and angling trips are rewarded with quality fish. Older, bigger barra can't be replaced with new stocks. They are not just a big fish, they are a valued, time consumed animal that has taken mass effort by both the fish and people to reach their 'highly noted status!'
Continue to mishandle, and we won't have a future of XOS AWOONGA BARRA, or Faust, or Monduran etc etc etc Same applies everywhere.
Concerned, yet willing to help through proper education.
Johnny Mitchell
Lake Awoonga

## big lake barra are unfit and are usually totally exhausted by the time they reach they net. An exhausted, physically drained fish is in mass need of oxygen to rejuvinate after a drawing or extended fight. Barra expend mass amounts of energy when jumping, more reasons to take into consideration why quicker releases are essential to their health and to best chances of survival.

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

the distribution of a barra's body mass needs to be spread over a large area as a 'support' as opposed to a hanging point or lifting point. 4 hands help hold this fish up for a quick photo. Note the dorsal spikes and the barra's fins all erect and alert. This is in indication of a good state of health that this fish is in. All the same, the quicker the fish is back in it's natural environment, the better chance it has of recouperating and surviving.

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

it is wise to hold a barra in an upright position when reviving for a quick release. All body weight still needs to be cradled until the barra is totally submersed into water once again. A few forward motions helps pass water over a barramundi's gills, helping push oxygen through its starving system. Most barra swim off freely after only several seconds reconditioning in the water. Sometimes it helps to just push the fish free, they usually propel themselves to keep the o 2 system working happily. A gentle touch of their tail often sees themsleves swim strongly away from the boat. Always keep barra in an upright position in the water and avoid making unnatural movements with the fish which may disrupt its sense of balance and its state of 'equilibrium!' - a disoriented fish is off in 'outer space' !

[BG]

Maybe a sign such as the one that displays noxious fish at the ramp of Awoonga could be used to alert/remind anglers of the key points you have mentioned in this post, Iam sure the cost would be minmal and well worth it, especially if it helps prolong the life of any fish in any of the impoundments. Just a suggestion,

Cheers Ben

[dfox]

John- i understand what your on about and i know that this doesnt only apply to your fishery in the impoundments, but as i understand each fisherman needs a permit to fish these areas so why not have this information on the permits.
Bens raised a good point as well.
With all the money thats raised and used to stock and maintain these impoundments surely some should be utilized in educating the users of this resourse .Places like awoonga are known for there large barra and i asume thats why many go there to catch these oversize fish, if places like this dont lead the way in education i fail to see it trickling threw to the main stream public. Hope you have a win mate...foxy

[Awoonga]

No permit is required to fish Awoonga now.... just turn up and fish....The is a pamphlet made by ET about releasing fish .....Most tackle shops have them... getting them to the masses that fish Awoonga could be a problem ...Maybe we need a box with a sign that says Please take one..At the ramp. Now if only one out off ten take a pamphlet we will make some small improvment....

[dfox]

Yeap it all helps i guess.
At least if there was a sign or pamphlet readily seen or available, its possiable when you witness poor handling to yell out from boat to boat suggesting that it maybe wise to read the sign next time...

[bosso]

johnny i cant get onto sharpy is he back yet and for how long will he be back do you know???

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

been and gone he has, like the wind, like the rain, here one day, gone the next.

[the_matrix]

An impoundment Barra can be "shook" to get the dorsal to stand up, even if its in poor condition. Have seen it before. Not the best indication to say that the fish will survive.
Jas

[thumps]

Mate i was wondering


with all the Austrailian manufactureres around right now
and all the "barra" lures they make

maybe an approach to place a small paper insert into the box of every lure sold.

i know a certain company used to put such a thing in theirs a few years back.

if the industry wants to have good sales...then they maybe should put something back in the way of mentioning sustainability within the areas their trying to sell to.

i realise this has alot of what if's about it...but maybe ...well you never know

cheers

[the_matrix]

Thumps, Great, logical idea. Thats what scares me!
Often , the answers to our problems lie in front of us, but either the "blinkers" are on or politics get in the way of the true solution. :( :(
Seems like an easy way of education.
Jas

[juicyfruit]

Careful, cancer of the colon is terminal....side effect of blowing too much smoke up someones bum....

.....just joking.

Think it's a good idea too.

The more people educated on this the better

But

It's unfortunate that there will be still be an element of "don't get a sh!t" types, that will always be around.

Juicy

[McCod]

Can't add much to the thred.... but the message needs to get to the fishos before they hit the water.... Maybe a pamphlet issued with the S.I.P may help even tho Awoonga is not on it.... as a lot of people with S.I.Ps fish Awoonga. Now this is a great site..... but the message will only get to a few via threds like this one as the topics only get a few hit ups and are usually the same Ausfishos anyway,
Handy link for anyone that is new or would like to learn more about fish care. http://www.info-fish.net/releasefish/

Cheers Les

[mackmauler]

Your doing good john, the awareness helps.

a basic sign at the boat ramp with a few simple ideas could be easy enough.

[bigdan123]

Les

I think that a lot of fisherpersons don’t realize that when you catch a small fish (barra, jack, bream, Jew etc etc etc ) they give an almighty display of energy on the deck of any boat.
Puts a smile on any ones face. :D
But when you catch an osxl of any species of any fish, and take them out of the water Gravity takes over. :(
When we go swimming you should be able to understand what the osxl fish goes through. We as fisherpersons pull them out of the water, But still don’t understand what the fish is going through for the extended time when we take photos and/ what ever. :( :( :(
Gravity will smother them. >:( >:( >:( >:(

Hope this makes sense

Dan

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

...the dorsal is a great way to monitor the condition of a fish, 'shaken' or not. A poor conditioned fish will lower, and or drop its fins very shortly after the 'shake', a well conditioned fish will hold its fins erect much longer showing its positve state of well-being. A high standing dorsal fin or dorsal spikes doesn't guarantee any survival, but it gives us an idea of the volume of energy reserved in a fish's system.
No, we don't want people to start shaking barra to see if they are awake or asleep etc, but a barra's body language tells us a great deal about what a barra is feeling. The young cocky rooster stands tall , fit and full of courage at the front of the pen, whilst the weather beaten old 'has been' stands half mast, his comb half over, half drawn from an exhausting past life, now lacking certain vigour. Body language of people, animals, and fish is a sure way that we can visually get a grasp of the health and state of 'liveliness' of each individual. Wild African animals pick the weak and dying through visual senses, and its a trait that us as humans can use to monitor, in this case, fish, and at times, how to minimise handling, to maximise survival chances.
johnny M

*i'm happy to start the ball rolling, by finishing off a handout( i saved what was written last time) to be distributed at local fishing caravan parks, fuel stations etc, or creating a short and to the point fish handling laminated poster!
I'm positive it needs to be done.

Any more thoughts??

[McCod]

Yeah Dan.... I sort of know what ya talking about..... I recon the best way to release any fish especially big fish is to leave them in the water while unhooking them. I understand all the hype surrounding peoples first and or biggest of a species and wanting to get photos etc. I used to get photos of just about every Barra or Murray Cod i ever caught.... I guess it was a ego thing. But now I or we us & Co release most Barra, Bass, and Murray Cod etc while there still in the water and in a lot of cases we deliberately give the fish slack line in hope that they throw the lure beside the boat.
We still get a few photos from most trips but keep it to minimum as we feel we don't have to prove nothing to anyone. If you are a seasoned angler I don't think you should be pulling every meter plus Barra or any other sized or species of fish into the boat just to get a photo. It may be a different story if there are sharks or crocks around. “Just my view “ :)

Cheers Les

[the_matrix]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one Mitch

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

why so jas? its all good info, share it, tell us what you are thinking?
johnny

[thumps]

i'll take mine stirred not shaken

;D ;D ;D ;D

[the_matrix]

Johnny,
Just a different school of thought. I personally dont believe that an erect dorsal dictates a fishes survivability. Sure its a good sign, and its pretty obvious (to most of us anyway)what needs to be done regarding the care of a big fish, and how to increase its chance of survival.
Just my own opinion.

I do agree with the education angle though. Im sick of seeing and smelling dead Barra on the surface.
Saw 5 today, from 750mm to 100cm plus. >:(

I guess the easiness of the trolling game has introduced a whole new group of anglers who are not educated in the safe and careful handling of Barra, large OR small! Limited boat knowledge as well, from what I have been seeing lately.
Anyway.......same old same old.
Cheers
Jas

[Smithy]

Johnny,

going back to that post of yours a couple of months ago along similar lines, what was your take on Max Garth's angle about not taking flash photography of them? Thread seemed to die after that post of mine with no comments by you, Les, Matrix, Trev, etc., etc. Just curiuos to know what you guys all think?

[McCod]

Smithy.... with regards to the flash photos thing on Barra from Max Garth
I'm taking it on board until i see some solid proof.... early days yet. But it is one of the reasons why i keep the photos to a minimum. I don't know what the long term efect will be from the Flash on Barra. But i'm all ears if anyones got some good info on it.

Cheers Les

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Wouldn't have a god dam clue on that one!! Best to be honest when you know no different. Interesting point, daytime fish i wouldn't think would be affected too much by flash, and i imagine most night time shots would have most affect on only one eye. Like Mc Cod said, I too am all ears on that one.
If its proven detrimental, I'll stop doing it, no worries there, but i do recall 12 months ago, catching a saltwater barra at night time, and having my mate photograph it 3 times in short succession. i released the fish only to have my mate capture the same fish again on a lure not 15 mins later!!
Just more to think on i suppose.
Thanks for bringing it back up Smithy

[Dehydrated]

Johnny,

I think it is great that you are willing to spend your valuable time to produce a handout to educate other fishers about handling big barra. What about distribution through the local tackle shops in Rockhampton and Gladstone. I am certain that the local tackle stores would get plenty of fishers saying "heading down (or up) to Awoonga, what lures should i take" type of comments being made to them. The handout could be given out at this point with a recommendation about the importance of reading and understanding the information provided. Hopefully, the local tackle shops can see the importance of this education process as they of course benefit greatly from the fantastic fishery that Awoonga is. I am sure this could also be applied at Faust, Monduran and other impoundments. Just a thought.

Cheers
Don.

[Mad_Barry]

Part of the problem may be due to what seems like more trolling the open water going on lately in these dams than casting (or trolling) in the tight cover.

The need for an aggressive drag setting is not as important out in the open water as it is when extracting them from up in the timber. Fight times are being extended. (in some cases to ridiculous levels).

On a recent trip to Faust, a boat near us hooked up. The guy looked to be onto a real horse. Keeping a distance and taking the chance for a break, we sat back, cracked open a tinny and observed.

This dragged on, and on. (I've no idea on the actual time), but it was way more than was needed. When the fish came in, from a distance it looked to be an 'average' fish of around the 80 to 90. Good fish, but certainly not enough to justify playing it out like a 1000lb marlin on 6 kg ;D

It would have been completey stuffed before it even came from the water.

Good idea with the handout, maybe add something like: 'Keep the fight times as short as practical', as well.

[thumps]

i have...and will always agree with all that has been written on the care and release of these mighty fish


however

Dicko
i tend to be of the opinion..that MAYBE your first Barra should be allowed to be fought out....bit like taking your first Marlin i guess

its ok if you have caught a few Barra....but i know IF i manange to get one on...then i will let it fight to the best of its ability...(we will be trolling)

having never caught one...alot can be learnt from that first fish

after that...yes i agree...get it to the boat asap so it can be released in good nic

when all said and done...it is a put and take fishery

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

some good extra points coming forward. i like the tacke shop distribution idea. Most of the basic points had been covered in the prior posts a month or more back, but there are a few new ones coming to the fore that should be added to get a few points across.
anything more???

[waggy]

Saw another big girl washed up on the western bank of Awoonga across from the ramp this morning. It was fresh, probably caught last night as there were many trolling that area. The sooner there is some education, the better. Even the simple act of squashing your hook barbs can make a huge difference when handling and releasing a big Barra. Quick lure removal, a quick measure &/or photo (if you haven't already got one, I mean, how many photos of Barra do you need?) and off she goes.
On another matter of education, ramp courtesy is also much in need of a refresher. Wind your boat on and drive up out of the way. This morning some punters waited patiently while both lanes of the ramp were occupied with one boat being tied down and prepared for the road and the other chatting about the catch. The bottom of the ramp is where you bang it off and bang it on the trailer. All the rest should be done up the top off the ramp. Ray

[Mak579]

Some good points there guys..... I agree we should do everything we can to ensure the health and safe release of our catch.

One thing that doesn't come up too often in these discussions is the health and safety of the angler! I'm talking about the rather large and sharp spikes in the barra's fins. (both dorsal and anal fins!)

Caution should be taken when holding these big girls, consider where and how your holding the fish and what might happen if the fish suddenly move's.

Ummm....it didn't tickle!!

Matt

[dfox]

John-Found the publication on fish handling, it pretty well cover all aspects your talking about...foxy

[nonibbles]

You can also get a free dvd from dpi&f called "Handling and releasing of large fish" it mainly talks about barra and shows some film of best practice handling and also some outdated styles of handling explaining why they shouldn't be used. They even measured a fish that had been jaw hanged and then x-rayed it to show the spinal damage caused to the fish.
It is an excellent dvd and should probably be provided at time of purchase of sip license (probably won't be though).
I'll see if I can find the specific web/email address for other users to get a copy. Probably speaking to converted though (I don't think there's any hypocrites here ;) )

Here is a mention of it but the link at the bottom is dead :'(
http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/13049.html

The link used to go to a page that emailed Alf Hogan directly so you could get hold of one.

This is the link to the site where you can get a fish release info pack, it contains posters, brochures and a dvd
http://www.info-fish.net/releasefish/
If you search the site there is info on releasing different fish like marlin etc as well as freshwater species and non fish species

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Hello,
Sorry for not responding earlier, been away for the week. Sorry for seemingly being ignorant.
So many forms of awareness available so it shows, but they still need to be distributed amongst the public. Those who seek the information are more likely to adopt proper practices ( i presume), so there will always be a big percentage who we need to 'chase down', and transfer 'messages' across. Mass , cheap handouts is a simple start, and possibly an attachment DVD to fishing mags (like the DPI version) could be another concept that may be of benefit if accepted by the publishing companies. i will re-surface my old points/guidelines and re-word some areas and also add a few more pointers that have been brought up. I will post it on Ausfish, and check the feedback comments, and then edit if neccessary before starting to print and release.

##gotta be done,
Johnny M

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

sorry foxie,
missed your comments on the Releasing Fish Guide by E.T.
will look further into it.
johnny

[waggy]

Hi John, in response to your e-mail, can I suggest a "code of practice" for impondment barra fishos where we educate & discipline ourselves to get them back in the water ASAP. One idea would be that we have a "fish process" kit on board ready to go. This would contain items such as a camera, pliers, wettable mat, gloves, measuring device, hand towel etc in a plastic lidded bin. When a fish is hooked, one of your fishing mates duties, besides driving the boat etc, would be to prepare for the fish. He/she could turn the camera on, wet the mat, lay out the measurer etc while you are playng the fish so that valuable time wouldn't be wasted after the fish is landed. If you both know what to do, and where things are before you commence fishing, things flow much more smoothly.
Once the fish is released, the kit is packed up (except for the dripping mat) ready to go for next time. Crimping barbs and using proper line size are the other keys to the fish's survival. I don't mean to tell everyone how to suck eggs, but you may find some ideas useful. Ray

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Taken all on board Ray. Great concept. Will utilise the idea. Did you get my PM about saltwater recaptures of those 2 tagged barra??
Johnny

[waggy]

Yeah, got the info John. There have been many escapees from the "local's private ponds" around the area. These may well be some. Ring 1800 077001 with the details and Bill will fill you in. Thanks for your efforts on this site, I am learning all the time. PS about time you took the old fella out the dam mate. He probably wont show you up!!!!! Ray

[black_sheep]

Some great suggestions. I was at Awoonga 2 weeks ago and came across 2 floating barra both over a metre. The first was well and truly decaying and was found up the Boyne arm. However, the second was floating in the main basin and was still barely alive. We tried to revive it for at least 20-30mins without any luck. We don't keep Barra and didn't have an esky big enough to fit the 115cm fish so in the end had to leave it floating off in the hope that another angler would come across it and at least take it for the dinner plate. Extremely depressing to see such a valuable resource wasted. A lot of anglers don't release that even though these fish may swim off, doesn't mean that they survive. Most go through some lactic acid build up post release and those that have been overly stressed eventually float belly up.
One tip is to be prepared before you catch the fish. Ensure the net is handy and ready to be used. Camera's, tape measures etc should also be very handy. If you having trouble freeing the fish from the net (due to hooks getting tangled up) and the fish has been out of the water for more than a minute, give it a breather while still in the net. I don't approve of weighing fish but if you must, use your net to support the fish and place scales on the net (not the fish's jaw). Lastly, if you do land a big fish and have trouble getting water through it's gills as they can be hard to manoeuvre, try idling the boat to push water more consistantly through it's gills.

I will endevour to make a few phone calls and see what the chances are of getting a heap of the ET pamplets sent out to a few of these dams. I will also try and convince Jan at Lake Awoonga to have some laminated and placed inside the cabins and bunk houses.


Good work Ausfishers and keep up the proactive education of good fishing practises and ethics. :)

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Good points, Thanks for the support. It needs to be distributed to many locations, far from local also. All for the positive.
Johnny

[BobbyJ123]

G'day mate. Another aspect of helping the big fish to revive and survive is, once the fish is in the net, to leave the net in the water for up to 20 seconds. This is a way for the barra to"compose" itself. My son and I tried it out on several fish in Prossy and Kinchant dams. and we found that the barra do not need as much reviving when returned to the water. The technique was given to my son by a guide in the NT, with whom he fishes on a regular basis.

[Feral]

Er - 3 pages of how to "preserve" the fish when taking its mug shot, so as to distress it the least?

Not to put to fine a point on it, but not one mention of shortening "the playing time", IE using a heavier setup, or making sure you dont muck about to much, so you get the fish in with less stress - fair enough reducing the stress while the fish is being "admired" and released, but lets not forget the catching of it is rather stressful as well!

As for the "admirers" who take forever to return the fish, a lot are just ignorant of the best way to treat the fish, but the cold sad truth is there is a very small element that are not all that interested in the welfare of the fish, it only gets tossed back over the side because they have to, they dont care if the fish lives or dies, just if they get fined.