Barra Braid Baitcasting Rod?? [Archive] - Ausfish fishing Australia, Australian Angling Forums

team_mongo

11-10-2002, 09:54 PM

Rev, 30 to 50lb is not out of the question when snag bashing. It has been said many times before that probably the most important problem associated with some forms of barra fishing is abrasion resistance. I myself have lost numerous big barra to tug of wars around timber. And heavy leaders and line can help in this situation. There is nothing to be gained by going light IMHO because most barra casting is 10m, unless of course you are trolling and depth is important. Also it is impossible to apply 50lb of tension through a loaded baitcaster.

To answer your question Wes, Miller rod - good expensive, dunno if it will catch more fish though.... Limited Warranty.

Loomis CBR 756 is the go, Lots of power, softer tip for braid, less jump offs (plenty of those...).

Studdies, good, maybe a bit too high modulus. Brett might disagree.

Do some serious NT barra fishing first Wes and then see what you need..

George

krazyfisher

12-10-2002, 03:48 AM

struddy 10-12kg it is a far weapon on big barra I have 30lb penn braid on it I have turn big sea turtles sharks and barra on it it casts ok for a heavey rod and works and feels good with a cvz253

Randall

12-10-2002, 04:01 AM

I`m with George on this one Wes...go the Loomis.

Randall.

Jack_Lives_Here

12-10-2002, 04:26 AM

Gotta agree with the Loomis. Used one up at Hinchy on the CVX combo - sweet bit of gear.

Rev - Minimum I ever use for snag work is 30lb. Still got bricked a few times at Hinchy. Some of this fish up there have taken knitting lessons I'm sure of it.

Wesley_Pang

12-10-2002, 04:51 AM

George,

I guess the Loomis Crankbaits are covered by the Expeditor program.

Ian Miller has a Barra braid rod under his own Miller Rods brand as well as under Shimano Ian Miller Millenium series. I may investigate whats the difference.

What setup did you use on your 50lb Tinaroo Barra?
http://members.optusnet.com.au/wpang/Images/Tinaroo_50lb_Barra.jpg

I'm may be off to the Archer River(Aurakun, south of Weipa) in May if I can't go on another Rowley Shoal trip. Mostly fly, but I'll take a baitcaster along.

I guess I'll have to have a closer look at all the options.

Did you see that WMC have 6X trebles now? WMC8527PS.

Randall,

50lb Barra on fly. Any more details? I may make the long run up north. I've got a 12/13# I can cast all day. From what I hear about impoundment barra, I'll have to cast all week.

Wes

team_mongo

12-10-2002, 02:25 PM

Hi Wes,

Have a look at springwood marine, talk to travis about the ian millers. Nice rod, fairly quick action though which is like the Loomis 666 and 667 (the previous barra standard - actually Ollie has one). I think they are about $500-600. Wes if you are serious about getting big barra, then I think you need every advantage, because unlike the goldens and longtails, these barra are extremely hard to land, for numerous reason which I'm sure you'll find out for yourself.

I was lucky to land that particular barra, my VMC 3x were opened up and the fish was jumped out. :P :PI had used penn 10x on the day before and although it had good abrasion resistance, it wasnt up to the task around the sticks. That was 30lb fireline, 6-8kg kevlarwrap which buckled over like a noodle when thumblocked (trying to stop get bricked in the timber..)

If your serious about big barra -

1. GL CBR 756 (it is the gold standard)

2. heavy braid (50lb braid for me this year)

3. millionare/cronarch or alike

4. tripple splits and 4x-6x hooks. I had a look at those VMC 6x, and geez they are thick guage, thicker than the owner! only downside is they are not sharp and not a conical point. I am not sure how sharp you can get them, but if they're like the 3x that is probably very sharp.

Wes, casting all week is not much to land a fish of a lifetime..

George

mackmauler

12-10-2002, 04:55 PM

hey guys i'm going to lake awoonga next week i'm well "equiped" my main rods a live fibre black bass special lines 50lb bionic and the reels a 400 calcutta with custom drag, The back up tackle is a sabre stroker with a tld 25 same line might troll with this, Rob

Rev

12-10-2002, 05:46 PM

scott_b

12-10-2002, 06:28 PM

Wes
Don't know what your budget is, mine is fairly low, I bought a shimano backbone 6 to 8 KG and as far as I'm concerned it was very good. I used a ABU 5600 c4 with 30 lb bionic braid. I was happy with everything except the bionic braid . We tested bionic, gorilla braid and fireline with scales and fireline was best by far for strength.
wamjam

team_mongo

12-10-2002, 07:18 PM

Man, you dudes are so unforgiving on those poor fish. ;D

Me thinks your tecniques may need a little looking at. ;)

Below is a 40lb Barra from deep in the snags in the upper Bensbach. :D

No impoundment slacker here, as this fish is not the top of the food chain in the river, the 20' Crocodiles are. ::)

The fish was hooked hard up against the bank under a very substantial clump of snags in the form of fallen trees, you can sort of see them in the shade behind us. 8)

Gear used;

Live Fibre 6kg Custom Baitcaster.
Calcutta 250.
14lb Fireline.
60lb Black Magic Tough Trace.
B16A Gold Bomber.

Done it before this one and I'll do it again. 8) 8)

I have only ever used gear as heavy as you guys are saying when I was fishing for Black Bass in New Guinea. :o

By the way, the fish totally destroyed the 5x Mustads, all of them, and the rings on the lure. :o ::)

Rev.

Hi Rev,

Beautiful fish - a real thumper.. I hope to go to bensbach in the coming years, when budget allows. It must of been amazing..

Now to the discussion - while it is possible to land large fish on lighter tackle I think you would have to agree that you would loss less fish through tackle failure on heavier tackle provided you use that same technique.

Whilst I have not caught a 40lber saltie, I have caught a 28lber at liverpool river. I dont know about the freshie slacker line - having been connected to a est 70lber and averaging 40lb impoundment barra aren't lightweights. I think saltwater fish lb for lb fight harder, but probably are in some ways a bit easier to catch. I say this because - firstly salties can be in dirty water. They tend to run out into the middle. If they do go for the snags, they are typically 'lighter' snags than what is experienced in impoundment, where you are mainly dealing with submerged 20m tall gum tree trunks. I think 14lb line wrapped around a gum tree with a 50-70lb barra may test anybody's technique. I agree with you that it is possible to catch massive barra on light gear - look at matt frasers amazing 6lb record (admittedly trolling). But IMHO you would catch MORE with heavier gear.

Don't get me wrong Rev, I agree that this may seem over the top, but you're dealing with a XOS fish which can be extremely hard to land. The more weaponary available to you, the better your chances. From reading Randall's post about TBF, I am not alone in going the elephant gun.

Cheers
George

Randall

13-10-2002, 02:45 PM

George, you are spot on. Not too many anglers have had the chance of fishing faust for the "unstopables".
Rev, if you were to fish this area with 15lb, you would last approx .005 of a second hooked up. Believe me,, we know what this impoundment is like!!
The average size of the impoundment Barra would be 100cm. If you were fishing them out in the open, no probs, you probably would get a few back to the boat. These fish concregate in old river mouths where standing timber abounds. Sometimes your casting in betwen two trees that may be 50cm apart. Get wacked there and you stand no chance.

There`s been some comments by a few anglers who have opinions about how to fish this location who have never visited the place. One guy even said 10 lb braid would be sufficient!!
The local stocking group at Faust who fish for these fish all the time just sit back and laugh at such ideas. They love to see the faces of the guys who finally come up and use their standard barra gear. First fish they get slammed by and their off to Prosserpine Bait and Tackle to get 50lb Braid and better rods.I believe that they are devising ways of getting these neanderthols back to the boat with off-shore gear!!

It really is an awesome fishery and until you visit the place and sample what overgrown impoundment barra are all about, its very hard to imagine why anglers upgade their gear.

Food for thought.
Randall.

Rev

13-10-2002, 03:25 PM

Here's more,

52lb Barra,
Snaggy Creek mouth.
Steve Starling Calcutta Medium Rod
Calcutta 200
14lb Fireline
60lb Momoi Leader.
Plenty of submergerd Snag and Mangroves.

Plenty more too.

Rev

13-10-2002, 03:31 PM

And this one,

Barramundi 38lb
hooked within a couple of metres of the boat that was tied to one of the many fallen Mangrove trees and roots in the same creek mouth as above.

Same gear as for the fish from Bensbach, except the leader was Momoi not Black Magic.

14lb Fireline.

Tough fight in and around the snags and a resident 8' Croc.

Rev.

Rev

13-10-2002, 03:40 PM

I know you're saying that looks pretty open to me, so here is a picture of another fish that went near 33lb.
This pic was taken looking back the other way.

This guy cheated, he was using 20lb Fireline.

I can quite safely say I've only lost one fish to a snag and it was in a creek junction near Maningrida and I think it was a huge Cod (estimated at 80lb+ by a glimpse of the fish at the take) and it got me on the snag we were tied to, 'cause we couldn't get the motor started as the battery was flat. Although I was connected for at least 20 minutes before I was tree'd.

Rev.

Wesley_Pang

13-10-2002, 04:57 PM

Rev,

You seem to be a BIG BARRA specialist.

We will have to get you up to Queensland to tackle out "Pet" barra in impoundments, Faust and Tinaroo(home to the biggest Barra on the Planet).

Do you prefer Fireline to Bionic Braid? Is Fireline rated the same way as Bionic Braid?

My brother George(team_mongo) has fished Liverpool River(Maningrida, N.T.) with Russell Kenny. He said it's an awesome Barra fishery. How does the Liverpool River compare to Bensback? Did you go recently to Bensback, since it's been re-opened? Is Bensback good for Papuan Black Bass and Spot Tail Bass? I recently got into a lot of Red Bass(close cousin of the Papuan Black bass). The Red Bass pull hard!!!

Keep the photos of the Big Barra coming.

Wes

Rev

13-10-2002, 06:32 PM

The Biggest Barra from one of our groups came into the boat at 63lb and a Salty to boot and sorry to say it was on only 20lb Fireline.

The "impoundment slacker" comment was just a friendly dig, but was mainly because impoundment fish don't have any predators or never swim into a current, so therefore are 'considered' an easier prospect once hooked, even freshwater river fish and Billabong fish have things they need to escape from and therefore have a stronger survival instinct.

We've been able to reproduce the larger Barra catches over the last three years by picking the right tides and moon-phases for just after the wet.

Bensbach is pretty much a Barra only fishery, but there are also some pretty good Saratoga too.

One of the crew landed a Saratoga of just on 6kg, this trip.

We were at Bensbach at the end of August this year and I would go back there in a flash, but maybe in June or even May, next time.

There are no Bass of any type at Bensbach or anywhere in the Bensbach River, so we'll just have to settle for the Barra.

We landed possibly four Barra over 40lb for our trip, possibly I say as one wasn't confirmed, not even a picture, so we'll call it three.

Mine, as pictured previously, was caught in the Freshwater upper reaches.

Maningrida is good, I lost my first Barra that would've gone over 30lb there, due to a cut off, of the leader, on the Gill Cover of a madly leaping fish.

From that very moment, I stopped and will never use 60lb or any other size Jinkai again.

As far as comparing Maningrida to Bensbach? There is no comparison, Bensbach would blitz it, although I would like to try the Liverpool during March rather than later in April when I was there a few years ago.

I've learn't a lot over the times I've been Barra fishing and now pre-book my Barra Trips to the Northern Territory almost 12 months in advance, based purely on the tides and Moon-Phases and I can tell you it works.

I don't know how to rate Fireline against Bionic-Braid, but I know one thing for sure, it don't break at it's indicated breaking strain if you tie your knots correctly.

I'm off to chase the Black Bass and Spot-Tail Bass in New Guinea in August 2003. I'm due a bigger Fish, as my best so far is around 9kg. We're looking for a couple of others to go. We can only take four at a time.

Below is a Black-Bass of around 9kg.

This is serious gear used;
20kg Live Fibre Custom Bait-Casting Rod, complete with a full set of Fuji Gold-Cermet, Titanium Body Guides.
Daiwa CVZ300A.
50lb Fireline.
80lb Jinkai Leader.
Nilsmaster 4" Spearhead.

If you've fished for and caught Mangrove Jack you know how these fight, most unfairly and they're ten times as big as an average Mangrove Jack.

By the way I fish for Mangrove Jack with a 4kg Live Fibre rod and 10lb Fireline with no problems so far.

Like the Mangrove Jack, the Black Bass hit the lure on the way back into the snags at full pace, so you have to stop them dead in thier tracks or it's all over in a second or so.

If Barra fought like that, then I might be using the heavier gear, you guys are talking about.

Rev.

Rev

13-10-2002, 07:05 PM

One for the road.

Katie from earlier this year, again, in the Northern Territory.

Same Creek.

Barra of 36lb.

20lb Fireline again.

Her husband, Bob, (that's him with the light blue shirt and the 52lb fish above) brought her along on this trip for her 50th Birthday.

We named the creek "Jenny Craig"

Because of these fat ladies waiting out the front to get in.

Let me know if you want to see more.

Rev.

Travis

14-10-2002, 04:22 AM

Rev for gods sake man put a hat on hehehehehe.......

Wes the Millerods are in a class of there own they are built to the highest quality,built on custom miller designed blanks and the cork grip and butt section are so comfortable in the hand price will be long forgotten.....

The miller pro barra is a powerful style rod the would handle 50 LB braid l think it is 5'6 but l do agree for double handed longer style baitcaster (6'2) with heavy braid the Top end braid rod sells itself.............These Barra rods of Ians sell for $495

The mag bass series of Loomis rods(IMX and GLX) will do the jobs you are wanting your rods to do l dont believe the crankbait will handle the pressure..

l do not have one at the moment in stock wes but there is a few other barra rods to have a look at along with the loomis range....

Travis

I do have an alliance with Millerods but l will happily sell you a Loomis,Strudwick,Shimano or ugly stick if you like ;D

Rev

14-10-2002, 07:31 AM

Rev for gods sake man put a hat on hehehehehe.......

Travis

A hat or a bag?

Thanks for that Trav.

Bad luck on the final results of the B.R.E.A.M. comp. You were in some pretty tough company and beat some of them you did well for an ex-pat Victorian.

Better luck next year

I'd have to agree with Trav there on the Miller Rods.

I don't use them myself, but you can't get the rods I use off the shelf either.

The build quality of the Millers is excellent with the only problem being delivery, at times. I've been waiting for my Bream Buster for just over 3 months now.

That might not be too much of an issue for the Barra Rods as they may have them in stock at Springwood.

If you want to just drag the fish out, then maybe the Gulf Bass or similar might be more suited, Trav'll tell us if the name is right.

It's definately worth it to dig your hand a little deeper into your pocket for a Miller Rod.

One thing I've found out recently, if you're using Soft Plastics, forget the stiffer rods and go for one with the softer top half. The Barra are just too hard to hook on Soft Plastics when using the standard type stiff Barra Rods.

On one day at Bensbach I would've dropped maybe a dozen fish on Soft Plastics before I landed one, a softer rod would've seen me into many more fish.

Trav, looks like that Pacific Composites rod I had built a couple of years ago and hated might just get a geurnsey yet.

Time to blow my own trumpet again, ::) 8) :D

My first "ever" and only fish so far on a Soft Plastic (Squidgie).

A 24lb Barramundi from the Bensbach River.

Trav, one other thing on the Bensbach Lodge, most of the boats up there had brand new Mercurys on them and the sticker on the motors said, "Supplied by Springwood Marine"

Maybe you can get a trip up there to service them or something. ;D ::) 8)

Rev.

Travis

14-10-2002, 05:26 PM

Its already happening rev,the merc deal with those guys was a good one 8)

As far as getting Ians rods the bream style of rods are the only hard ones to get thanks to the couriers and the popularity of the bream series this year but Rev l have a few bream busters left l'll do ya a deal if ya like ::)

The barra rods are a little easier to get and Ian will now have a little more time to pump out some serious rods.....

Rev l dont see 17th as bad luck Taree fished hard and for a few it fished well,and yes l'm looking forward to the first comp at the Docklands next year.....

Guys the ET fishing show is next weekend at the RNA showgrounds Starlo and Bushy will be there so you may want come along and ask them some barra questions......

Trav

Rev

14-10-2002, 06:01 PM

Its already happening rev,the merc deal with those guys was a good one 8)

Trav

Trav,

The motors need to be a bit bigger though, it takes ages to get up and down the river.

Be mindful of when you go, if you have to pay, it is not as good all of the time, as some would have you believe. :o ::)

If you get there for the right price then I guess you can't say too much. ;D

They also need a healthy supply of Shear and Split pins, ask Paul about that one. ::) ::)

The last lot of BB arrived at the store with a majority of them broken (thanks to the courier), the remainder I didn't want to touch even though they looked okay, so I wait another 10 weeks. :'(

Rev.

Randall

15-10-2002, 03:49 AM

Rev, awesome fish!! As George has said, you certainly know your Barra fishing!
You obviously know how to handle a large fish on light gear, (practice makes perfect!! ;-) )
I still maintain that Faust is unique in that the Barra are nothing like anywhere else. Their deep in the body...so much so that they are as deep as a windscreen in a car!!

You have to visit this place Rev!!! You would have an absolute Hoot of a time!!

They are on-par with the NG Black Bass. Real dirty fighters with muscle to back em up.

Thanks for the photos Rev, I really enjoyed seeing these monsters.

Regards, Randall.

tonyp

15-10-2002, 07:43 AM

Rev,
Yep you spend too much time fishing i am afraid. ;)

This would have to be one of the best threads of info on fishing with pics and advice, I enjoyed all the photo's as i am a BARRA virgin.

keep them coming,

bugman

15-10-2002, 09:13 AM

Being a barra virgin I can supply nothing more than the pic.

A journo mate of mine went to Bensbach two weeks ago.

This was his first fish on his first cast - or that's what he told me. The guide is holding the fish.

They were up near the Irian Jaya border.

Regards Brett

Rev

15-10-2002, 05:28 PM

This was his first fish on his first cast - or that's what he told me. The guide is holding the fish.

They were up near the Irian Jaya border.

Regards Brett

Brett,

Yeah I'd believe that. 8)

The 40lb fish I got was caught, maybe a couple of kilometres downstream from Weeam on the Bensbach River.

The story behind it goes like this,

We'd a pretty good morning with a few Barra landed, some Saratoga and around 50 ::) Catfish.

The sun had got high and the fish were getting scarce, so we decided to troll along the front of some heavy-duty snags with deep lures. ;)

We had on a selection of Lures ranging from 10 foot to 20 foot divers. There was a bit of shade on the water from over hanging trees and we were trolling along the shade line with the lures bumping and crashing through the outer reaches of the snags. :-X

Nothing much was happening, so Bok suggested that "one of you should have a cast into the bank amongst the trunks of the fallen trees". ;D

Now, you don't have to ask me twice, and on my second rod I had a nice, brand new, Gold Bomber B16A (the larger one). :) ;) :D ;D

This is a pretty standard thing for me, as, I will nearly always have at least one of the rods rigged with a Bomber of sorts. 8) ::)

John, who was one of the other punters in the boat, said "you're always going on about these bloody Bombers, so show me what it can do". :o ::)

So I stood up and cast the lure hard in against the bank, directly under the tree trunk that had fallen into the drink with the base of it still up on the bank. :P :P

Well, bugger me if after getting the reel into gear and moving the lure no more than six inches, this massive chrome fish appeared under the lure and went WHACK. ;D ;D :o :o

All of us in the boat saw this and just couldn't believe what had just happened. :o :o :o :o :o

The fish jumped, somersaulted, lunged and twisted and despite the de-barbed hooks, stayed connected. :D :D

One of the guys even said the "C" word (camera) before the fish was landed, but we still got it into the boat. :(

The three sets of 5x Strong Mustad trebles were trashed, one broken, one straightened and the last set we couldn't find. The u-beaut rings were straightened and the mounting points on the lure were twisted. :o ::)

The fish gave her all in the fight and if you look at the state of her gills you can see she was pretty badly cut up. Nonetheless, we released her and she swam away, but I didn't hold much hope for her long term survival. She gave such a good fight and she was truly a magnificent fish so I figured that, eventhough survival was marginal, she deserved the chance and let her go after some pics. :'( :'(

After we released the fish we continued to move alond the snags. I was still so pumped after that fish, my casting was all over the place. Up the bank, short, long and caught up a few times. I finally settled myself down enough to get my casting in order, when another large fish (maybe a 30lb fish) had a go at my newer Gold Bomber and we saw it coming again, but I guess I was still too pumped because I struck before the fish had the lure and missed it. :-[ :-[ :-[

I was busting to get up amongst the snags on the following days, but was out-voted, as the others wanted the easier option of the open water and blind casting down stream, so I missed out trying to get in amongst those snags again. >:( >:( >:(

So that's how it all happened.

Rev. ;) :D

Rev

15-10-2002, 05:33 PM

The lure! :o

Rev.

bugman

16-10-2002, 05:35 AM

Nice Rev- Very nice.

My mate got a el-cheapo deal through a work friend of his - all worked related type of thing.

but I'm interested as to how much it costs for a trip up there now. Let's say for about a week with travel and accommodation. Are you nudging $5,000 yet.

Brett

Wesley_Pang

16-10-2002, 02:44 PM

Just got a reply back from Ian Miller http://www.millerods.com about his range of Rods.

"Hi Wesley,

Thanks for the enquiry. The Pro Barra is a rod used for both trolling and
casting. As the name suggests, it is favoured by anglers in the NT, who do a
lot of trolling and generally prefer a no-nonsence rod when it comes to
hooking and fighting barra. In experienced hands it handles braid well but
in my opinion it is better suited to mono.

As the name suggests, the T.E. Braid Barra is designed for braided line use
and has a different type of action, as well as being longer at 6'2". Unlike
the Crankbait rods it is full graphite all the way to the tip, which makes
it a better casting rod and much more sensitive for when using soft plastics
or trolling. However due to the action and length it is a bit different to
traditional barra rods and if you are used to such shorter rods it does take
a few casts to get used to. But it is very good for braided lines!

The Salty Barra does have a nice light tip and as such is a good
all-rounder. I tend to use the Salty when I need a rod that might have to do
a lot of different jobs and/or when I am fishing an unfamiliar area. I
usually recommend them for those that prefer the more traditional style of
barra rods.

Please don't hesitate to ask if you want some more info.

Regards,
Ian"

mackmauler

16-10-2002, 03:43 PM

Went to just about every tackle shop I could think of today and the 6* trebles are an urban legend to them even 4* in size 1 were unatanable ??? I am not an experienced barra angler but I'll be in awoonga for a few days this week fishn the black bass rod at breaking point with 50 bionic I've customised some lures with singles rigged loose, will report next week.

Steve_Ooi

16-10-2002, 04:08 PM

Mackmauler if you are fishing open water then i would suggest backing the drag off.Locked drags are for extreme conditions, like Faust and other dams up in sticks, where it all or nothing.
Cranking up the drag in open water only increases the risk of pulling the hooks or straightening them.
Dont forget to drop the rod tip when they head to the surface to jump.
With some of the real big fish you can actually feel them implode on the lure , you'll get a small tap ( as they boof the lure and suck it backwards) and then a split second later you get the almighty thud as they turns on the lure and run.
good fishing and I hope you nail a few.

Poony

mackmauler

16-10-2002, 04:16 PM

Cheers mate, I just want the monsters after hearing all these great stories I've got to see it for myself, Ill start off light and if its not working I will at least be able to see for myself if these little suckers are as tough as they reckon, I doubt it, but i'm lookin forward to finding out. ;D

Rev

16-10-2002, 05:05 PM

but I'm interested as to how much it costs for a trip up there now. Let's say for about a week with travel and accommodation. Are you nudging $5,000 yet.

Brett

Brett,

I assume you're talking about Bensbach.

The trip for Bensbach at this time is for 2 half days and 5 full days fishing. It includes two nights in Cairns, one before you leave and the other on your return. Add a bit for meals and drinks in Cairns, drinks and tips :o at Bensbach and Departure Taxes. Oh and don't forget return Airfairs to Cairns, ex-Melbourne for us and we didin't see much back out of $5,500 each.

Not to mention the fact you need to take all of your own gear so, if you don't have any, there's another $1,000.

If you want to go to the other place where all of the other big fish came from then, rock up to Darwin, with a hat and couple of changes of clothes and you'll be fishing for under $3,000 for five days. 2 nights accom in Darwin included. You'll need to mindfull of the correct times and tides for that though.

Save hard and live.

Rev.

team_mongo

16-10-2002, 05:32 PM

MackMauler,

Try Jones for 4x VMC with cone points (had some last week), and when I was last at tackle warehouse they had the 6x VMC's (I think???).

I havent found anyone yet who carries Owners as stock, but you can order them through Jones's.

Cheers
George

lordy

17-10-2002, 06:54 AM

One for the road.

Katie from earlier this year, again, in the Northern Territory.

Same Creek.

Barra of 36lb.

20lb Fireline again.
Rev.

I note you like fireline. You are using 10, 14 and 20lb.

Don't for a second think you are fishing that light. Ever wonder why fireline is thicker than other similar lb braids/gelspuns? Its because its actually double strength to what is marked on the box. You are fishing 20, 28 and 40lb lines. Those barra you caught on 14lb were really caught on something closer to 30lb, keep that in mind when suggesting 30lb bionic is too heavy (its actually 36lb). Not bagging fireline, its just they should put the real breaking strain on the box.

I'm still bloody jealous, those are some awesome fish you caught there. One day, one day......

mackmauler

17-10-2002, 07:05 AM

I tried tackle warehouse George they were the only ones southside I tried to have the 4x but the problem was i could only get size 2 and 4 (only size available from what im told)they don't have 6x yet and another shop said they arn't in the country yet, mailorder might be the go for anyone chasn them. Cheers Rob

Rev

17-10-2002, 05:36 PM

I note you like fireline. You are using 10, 14 and 20lb.

Don't for a second think you are fishing that light. Ever wonder why fireline is thicker than other similar lb braids/gelspuns? Its because its actually double strength to what is marked on the box. You are fishing 20, 28 and 40lb lines. Those barra you caught on 14lb were really caught on something closer to 30lb, keep that in mind when suggesting 30lb bionic is too heavy (its actually 36lb). Not bagging fireline, its just they should put the real breaking strain on the box.

I'm still bloody jealous, those are some awesome fish you caught there. One day, one day......

Fireline is not a braided line, it is a fused multi-filament line, made from "Micro-Dyneema".

The closest thing to it available, is/was Spiderwire Fusion, made from "Spectra" and it was significantly thicker than Fireline for the same breaking strain.

All Braided superlines are much thinner than their fused counterparts.

The common thing is the amount of strands for a given breaking strain remains the same for the Braided and Fused lines of the same material, but the fusing process instead of the tight braiding makes the overall line thicker as there is an overall coating applied to it as part of the process.

I think nearly all of the Superlines break at levels way over the stated breaking strain, that's why there is no I.G.F.A rated superline, although I hear rumours.

Rev.

Steve_Ooi

17-10-2002, 06:02 PM

I remember reading about some IGFA rated braids but i cant remember where.
Instead of the marketing hype of playing with numbers to make products look better, personally i think all lines should be rated at the actually breaking strain, so that way we know exactly what we are buying.
It gets hard to compare lines if the labels give false infomation.
"spectra" and "dyneema" are just company names for the same thing UHMWPE (ultra high molecular weight polyethylene) .

Poony

Rev

17-10-2002, 06:31 PM

lordy

18-10-2002, 07:49 AM

"Micro-Dyneema" is a much thinner material for a given breaking strain than the "Spectra" although they are essentially the same material.

I think you'll find, that the strength of the superlines might be rated for a sudden jerk rather than a constant pull as is happens in normal fishing scenarios.

If you could provide a short, sharp jerk on the superlines, with no give at the anchor points, it breaks at much much lighter level than the constant pulling technique.

Try it with the lighter lines and you'll see. It's a bit too hard to do it the higher rated lines.

And because that is the lighter of the two methods to break it, then that is how it maybe rated.

Rev.

True, but fireline is probably the worst offender. Most of the others like to use the finer diameter as a selling point, which means keeping the line closer to the marked breaking strain. I'm pretty sure Harro's is close to 20% over (30lb is now 36lb, 50lb is probably closer to 60lb). Its interesting to look through Geoff Wilson's book of knots for superlines, and note what fireline actually breaks at even when knotted.

Randall

18-10-2002, 11:07 AM

Lordy you knot nerd!!!

You love to get to the bones of it dont you!! ;-)

What is the true breaking strain of say 8lb fireline that we use here for our Bass and Bream playthings?

Randall.

Maxg

18-10-2002, 10:45 PM

Braid, ergo, High Molecular Weight Polyethylene yarn, can be either Dyneema, made by DSM High Performance Fibres in Heerleen Holland, the inventors and patent holders of, Toyobo Co in Japan, licenced, or Spectra, made by AlliedSignal Inc in America also licensed.
The stretch of both is so low that normal IGFA testing isn't appropiate to test GsP, the load rate of IGFA machines is 400mm/minute wheras for GsP that is a sort of snap load and results are eratic, best load rate is 100mm/minute.
Braids vary in abrasion resitance in relation to diameter, the very thin braids 20lb and under are so fragile its nearly impossible to lay them on a textured brick under tension, they fracture immediatly.
The knot strength of GsP is low, generally under 90% but spider hitiches are around 48%. Contrary to the usual stuff Biminis are a failure in GSP, because the braid is so thin and slippery a positive lock is rarely obtained, and in any case the double is rarely a double due to the low stretch, so that very precise setting up is needed to get equal loads on both legs of a GsP double.
In rough country heavier braids are best but a good mono is probably better, mind you Stren PowerBraid is better than GsP and mono as far as abrasion resistance goes, at least 400% better, it is sold, or was, at knot strength and it can be glued, GsP can't.
I the impoundment dams if I could get it I'd use 35lb (70lb) Stren PowerBraid.
Fireline is a fused product, the fibres in Fusion were not braided but Fireline has a weave in it, not tight but a weave. It breaks about 5000% up on the message on the box, why, dunno but it's tough. I tried some 30lb Fireline rubbed across a textured brick and it had extremly good abrasion resistance, I'd say really good because I gave up on breaking it after 20 rubs.
GsP braid is the worst fishing line ever invented, it has so many bad bits, stiff, high modulus, fragile, low abrasion resistance, slippery, has to be loaded on reels under high tension, bad knot strength has a terrible critical radius, but it is thin and strong. I love it.
Best fly line backing in the universe, and you can get IGFA standard Magibraid (Spectra).. 30lb BB breaks at 36lb because it allows for the low knot strength when using 10kg tippets, its pink because fish see it as light blue, in other words you see it, fish dont. Why, there is no red in the ocean, Cheers have fun on the barra. Max

Randall

19-10-2002, 04:10 AM

Good enough for me....I`ll stick with Fireline!!!

Randall.

Mad_Barry

19-10-2002, 07:51 AM

Top post here fella's ;D

Though it's taken for granted that fireline is way under rated,, the "extent" that they fib is pretty ludicrous really,,maxg's 5000% is pretty spot on :D :D

While mucking around with various knot & leader set ups over a few beers one arvo,,ie, rig various set up's & then hook it to the post on the back verandah & test to "destruction"

While the "experiment" didn't set any records for scientific accuracy, I'll swear black & blue that with the same knot's & leader set up 14lb fireline on my 4600,,takes a lot more oomph to bust off than my 5600 with 30lb bionic.

which is a bit crazy from a user point of view,,,, but from a marketing angle of saying "the worlds strongest line",, I suppose it makes sense,, ::),,sort of ;D